Introducing the Global Black Economic Forum Transcript

More Elephant Intro

[00:00:38] Jason Rudman: Welcome to the latest edition of the More Elephant podcast, where we think through ideas and talk to change makers who are having an impact on this world. And so it's truly an honor for me to welcome Alphonso David to this edition of the podcast.

Alphonso is a social and economic justice advocate, lawyer. But that doesn't actually paint the real picture. So rather than allow me to go through all of Alphonso's credits, I'm going to welcome Alphonso to the podcast.

[00:01:10] Alphonso David: Thank you.

[00:01:10] Jason Rudman: Alphonso, I'd love to jump in. The work that you're doing as part of the the Global Black Economics Forum is incredibly important, but I'd like to take a step back if we could, so that allow you to introduce your history, your commitment to representation.

Social and economic justice and the connection to your personal background and your experience essentially the why the broad canvas of Alphonso’s work.

[00:01:37] Alphonso David: Well, first, thank you for having me on the podcast. You know, it's a really difficult question to answer because it's such a long answer. But what I'll say is this.

I do this work, meaning change agency, social justice, and economic justice work, because I have learned over the decades that I've been on this earth that the law and policy have been used to oppress and disadvantage marginalized groups for such a long time. And I wanted to use my skills, my talents, to right the wrongs of the past, to find a way to utilize the law, to empower marginalized people, to use policy and advocacy, to create pathways for liberation in the future.

We are living under oppressive systems in so many parts of the world. And the ‘we’ are people who are marginalized by race, by ethnicity, by gender, by sexual orientation, by gender identity. And I want to constantly use my skills and my expertise to think about meaningful ways that we can try to level the playing field.

We talk about equity and equality all the time. And I find that in some parts of this country and parts of the world, we're regressing. And it provides a level of urgency to the work that I do because there are people that are living all over this world that are confronting challenge after challenge after challenge after challenge, simply because of who they are or the currency that they were born in.

[00:03:31] Jason Rudman: And so, if the work of the work is to target the structures and the systems that stand in the way of everything that you described, which is ultimately about equity and equality, can you take us back and just hit a few touchpoints — I call them More Elephant moments — which is essentially I stand still, I listen, and it is revealed what I am supposed to do at THIS moment.

And you've had an amazing career, so could you just color for the audience, who may not know Alphonso David, a few of those highlights that connect to the passion with which you described where you are in this moment and what you're seeking to do with the Global Black Economic Forum?

[00:04:17] Alphonso David: Yes, there are many moments. I can pick a few for purposes of this conversation that I think will highlight the point you are referencing. I had the privilege and the challenge of growing up in West Africa, Liberia. The privilege, because it's my home, it's where I grew up, it's my legacy, it's where my family is from. And I will always associate myself with that part of the world.

The challenge, because I had the unfortunate experience, along with my family, of going through a military coup where my uncle, the President of Liberia, was assassinated. My father, the mayor of Monrovia, was put in prison for 18 months because of his political affiliation, where we lived under house arrest for three years before we sought refuge here in the United States.

And when I went through that experience, the themes that I remember are courage, tenacity, fortitude, drive, and being able to look yourself in the mirror each and every time you confront a challenge and realize who you are and why you're here.

Those are important questions to ask ourselves every time we confront a challenge. Who are you, and why are you here?

If the answers change over time, don't critique yourself. You may be getting closer to the real answer. I asked myself that question when I was 10, 11, 12 years old, going through this process where my life, my family's life seemed to be dismantling in fundamental ways that I really didn't appreciate as a 10-year-old child. And I asked myself that question again when I lost my parents.

And I asked that question again when I shifted careers, or the directory of my career shifted, I should say, from working in the private sector to the not-for-profit sector. I asked myself that question again when I shifted from the not-for-profit sector into government. And, I constantly ask myself that question because it forces us to remain grounded in why we're here and who we are.

And I think of so many leaders who come before me who provide guidance as I go through this process. I think of Maya Angelou, I think of James Baldwin, and I think of God for me, because I'm a man of faith. And I think of the scripture, I think of materials that have been created for us that serve as a blueprint for how we can help better define ourselves.

We often don't learn enough from history and we end up repeating the same mistakes over and over again because of it. So, for me, the touch points are, you know, my childhood, my career shifts over time, my parents passing away, and really constantly taking a step back and saying, who are you, and why are you here? And not being afraid to ask that question, regardless of how old you are and regardless of your station in life.

[00:07:41] Jason Rudman: And I appreciate that so much because you took us back to one of your earliest recollections, right? You mentioned this was 10, 11, 12, an inhospitable environment, a military coup, and yet it's a reference point that you consistently come back to.

As you said, when your career and your life and what you do weaves in and out and takes you on these wonderful but different pathways, your ability to come back to that reference point and always seek solace, I think, is just such a powerful lesson that never gets old to your point. It never gets old if you always remember it, right? And go back there, right?

[00:08:20] Alphonso David: You always have to remember it. And I often say to friends who are facing challenges, remember to look in the mirror and see a friend. Because if you can't see that, if you can't see that person, no one can. And so, you will face challenges in your life, everyone does. And you have to be able to take a step back and look in that mirror and see a friend. And if you can recognize who that person is, you can create a path forward. Despite all of the noise and all of the distractions, you will see a path forward and realign yourself with what your destiny is, what your mission is, and what your passion is. Because there's so much that we confront in our lives that distracts us from what we're supposed to be doing.

[00:09:08] Jason Rudman: A lot of the conversations that we're having on the More Elephant platform in this series are around representation and why it's incredibly important. And again, you started this conversation with needing to take a, my words, a sledgehammer to target structure and systems —you might not call it a sledgehammer. I would, based on my lived experience — that stand in the way of economic justice. And there is a very pithy, in quotations, small note that GBEF put out there, which is this is bigger and this is larger than an African-American issue because essentially “nobody wins in our current system.”

Can you take that frame of reference and for our audience, explain broadly what GBEF seeks to address? Because it's much bigger, right? It is much bigger than solving for the Black community across or throughout the world.

[00:10:10] Alphonso David: I've had the privilege of running the Global Black Economic Forum for close to two years now. Going, I think, into my second year. I've lost track, but I certainly think it's around there.

[00:10:23] Jason Rudman: I think it was June of 2022 if my research serves me correctly. I think you're in your second year.

[00:10:29] Alphonso David: And I'm in my second year. And the Global Black Economic Forum really is dedicated to re-imagining what equity [and] equality looks like. Getting us to really transform systems and structures that have been created to achieve equity, but have unfortunately been unable to do so.

I don't think that we should be afraid of revisiting language and structures that were created to achieve a certain goal if they haven't achieved that goal. And as we think about the systems, institutional systems that exist, whether we're talking about financial services or something else, those systems, embedded within those systems have been institutional bias. I'll just say that. And we have to be honest about those institutional biases that exist and come up with strategies for dismantling those biases.

And it is not only for Black men and Black women. It is for all people. It's for all marginalized communities. And it's for everyone in our culture. If you take a look at systems that actually can succeed, they can only succeed if we achieve equity. If you don't achieve equity, you can never get to that point of truly maximizing revenues. If you don't embrace diversity and inclusion, you cannot achieve true innovation.

We know the stats, we know the narrative, we know the reports that have been issued year after year after year, essentially saying unless we look at diverse communities, unless we bring diversity within the fold of how we really think of our institutions into our corporate ethos, we won't actually achieve true equality. We won't achieve equity.

And importantly, for businesses, they won't maximize shareholder returns. They won't achieve innovation in the way they need to, and they [will] become relics of the past. How do we take all of these systems that exist? How do we take a sledgehammer or a scalpel to unpack, to dismantle, to disintegrate what they look like to maybe put together a new system that could achieve greater results for all marginalized communities?

And there's so many people in these spaces that are doing such great work. So, I want to also say that because that's important. I call myself a change agent. When we do this work, I often think that we have to acknowledge that there are other people in these spaces who are doing great work as well. Because we have to put the ego aside and we have to embrace the true purpose of the work. In doing so, making sure that the other voices at the table that are contributing to these conversations, making sure that they're recognized, is just as important as dismantling the systems that we're looking to dismantle.

[00:13:42] Jason Rudman: History teaches us that it's about coalition building. If you think about the history of civil rights in this country, it was a series of coalitions that brought together seemingly disparate people to say, this is how we affect the change that we truly need in this country to build a more equitable future.

It also strikes me that as some of the data that is shared on your platform indicates, there's a persistence to this that is also part of the challenge, right? When you think about, you know, only 1% of venture funding going to black founders. When you think from the Pew research in 2022, that Black women are paid 63% of white non-Hispanic men for the same work, those are persistent challenges. We didn't just wake up with those.

That connects to your thesis that these structures and these systems are ingrained and that is, within the work that you're doing, part of the challenge because they are deep and they are core, some might argue, to the way that we think about work community and who should be involved in the benefits and the spoils of society.

[00:15:02] Alphonso David: They are, they are, which is part of our platform, obviously. And we think of this work through the lens of the future. And I'm constantly talking about it through that lens.

History is incredibly important as we've talked about, but so is the future. And history should inform the future, of course. So we're talking about the future of work. What does that look like? We're talking about the future of wealth generation. What does that look like? Talking about the future of health, what does that look like?

In order to imagine what the future looks like, we have to, of course, acknowledge what our present is and have that present be informed by our history. So 1% of venture capital funding, as you mentioned, goes to Black founders. If you are really interested in equity, you can't ignore those numbers. They're real. So if those numbers are real, the question then becomes, if you believe in equity, what are you going to do about it?

It can't just be, well, they're not qualified. Well, their ideas aren't significant enough. Well, we don't know any venture capitalists who are interested in funding. None of those are legitimate, either, because I know enough entrepreneurs and venture capitalists who are interested in getting funding for their ideas.

So we have to acknowledge that if it's 1% of venture capital funding going to people of color or Black people specifically, there is a deeply rooted problem with valuation, with how we value ideas, with how we value equity, with how we value the folks who are coming to the table with their ideas.

And [then] unpack that and have that conversation, but then, importantly, come up with solutions. We can't just simply talk about the problem. We have to think about what the solutions are and test them. Not every solution will work, but we have to be willing to test new solutions, potential solutions, to systemic, embedded problems that we've been confronting for a long time.

[00:17:12] Jason Rudman: And if I were to pull that thread through, so not only the valuation, because the ideas are good; we, you and I could point to within the other 99%, ideas that are a similar thematic, where the Black founder doesn't have access or agency within a system because the representation is not there to bring them through.

Is that a fair pull on the thread that you talked about in terms of valuation? So not only the valuation of the idea, but also the access or the agency to be able to be in the conversation.

[00:17:43] Alphonso David: Absolutely. We talk about this broadly in the terms of access to capital. And it's certainly about relationships. It's certainly about access to certain communities or certain people with influence and power. And it's, unfortunately, identity.

It is what it is: identity. And so, if we are honest about the challenges that entrepreneurs face in this country, and we are able to honestly have those conversations about the challenges they're facing, maybe we're able to unpack the solutions that arguably exist now, appreciate that those solutions are not working and come up with new approaches to solving what we see as a deeply rooted systemic problem.

[00:18:31] Jason Rudman: It immediately brings to mind, Alphonso,…I remember recruiting. And you might be wondering where I'm going here, but I trust you, I think it's a link. I remember recruiting, you know, 15, 20 years ago, and we were having a conversation. It was the conversation, which is, we're not seeing enough people of color from, you know, all walks of life, coming into the pipeline.

And there was this admission, and it took a lot of work, that we’re fishing in the wrong ponds because if you're always going to the same ponds, you're always going to get the same thing. And it was an admission that, to your point, we actually had to think very, very differently about the sources we were going to and pushing ourselves to show up in different spaces, in different places, in order to find extremely qualified candidates that were not coming in these very, very traditional front doors.

[00:19:24] Alphonso David: And look, what we often don't say is, this is not easy. When you operate outside of your comfort zone, when you operate outside of the status quo, that means you're doing something that hasn't been done before. That means you are confronting a new rubric, a new paradigm, a new prism, that you may not fully understand.

But, unless you're willing to do that, you're then telling me that you are willing to keep the status quo in place, which is an oppressive status quo for people of color and marginalized communities.

So, we have to be willing to say, yeah, this is not comfortable because I don't know where to look. I don't know how to approach this work. There are others who do. There are others who can provide you with the guidance. There are others who can provide you with the tools.

And I know business leaders do this all the time — if you're thinking of expanding your market share, if you're thinking of expanding to new regions, if you're thinking of opening up a satellite office in a country that you may have never visited before, what happens? You do market research, what happens? You do an analysis, what happens? You approach the marketplace in a way that you may not have approached before because it's a different terrain. Same thing here.

You know, what we ask is, that we counsel a number of businesses and business leaders about inclusion and diversity and making the business case for expanding their scope of work. And I often say, we have to be honest about, in some cases, this may not be easy. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. It means that we should.

And it also means that you don't have to do it alone. That there are others here to help you do it. And there's no reason to be ashamed of asking for help. That's why we're here. That's why organizations like mine and others exist in order to provide that support to companies, to institutions, the government that need that support in order to break the, what I call the proverbial circle that we're operating in, that unfortunately now and for quite some time, results in diminishing returns.

[00:21:39] Jason Rudman: You mentioned a couple of times this whole idea of coalition building. And I so appreciate your sentiment that the Global Black Economic Forum is but one part of a mosaic that is effectively going to advance equity for the Black community and other marginalized groups.

There are three tenets or three core avenues of GBEF. So, would you just take us down each one of those and what they seek to accomplish on behalf of this larger mission?

[00:22:11] Alphonso David: Sure. So, I think of the Global Black Economic Forum as a triangle. And, at the top of the pyramid, we have summits and conferences, where we bring together thought leaders, world leaders, business leaders, and civic leader to address some of the most vexing, entrenched problems that are confronting marginalized communities. And we bring them together to have conversations about those issues but also to propose solutions to them.

The solutions that we generate during our summits and conferences then get addressed in two ways. One is through our leadership development company called the Academy for Advancing Excellence. The Academy works with entrepreneurs, Fortune 500 companies, and government institutions to address some of those issues. It could be done through leadership development. It could be done through coaching. It could be done through institutional assessments. And so they address some of these problems with the institutions, with government agencies, with companies using a variety of tools.

The second, or the third, I should say within the triangle, is our Foundation that advances policy and advocacy because we, of course, understand the importance of the law, and we also understand the importance of the executive and legislative branches in advancing change. So, we utilize our policy arm to advance economic opportunity and, ultimately, economic freedom for marginalized communities.

In fact, we are co-counsel in a piece of litigation right now that's pending in front of the 11th Circuit. We are defending a venture capital firm called the Fearless Fund. They were sued for providing grants to women of color, and specifically, one grant that provided funding to Black women.

The argument is that by providing funding to Black women, they are violating federal law, which we vehemently disagree with. And we think they're using a statute that was passed in 1866 to provide support, to allow, I should say, Black people to enter into contracts and they're subverting that statute and using it against the very people that it was passed to help.

So we're currently before the 11th Circuit, we'll be litigating that case. And that is within our third pillar, which is the policy, advocacy, and litigation arm of the Global Black Economic Forum. And we use all three to advance our mission.

[00:24:49] Jason Rudman: One could argue that is a really poor example of reaching back into history that is seeking to undermine the very things that we've been talking about here, about why representation matters and why we need to challenge structure and systems.

I want to go back to the coalition building. You mentioned a list of civic, government, and business, but in your most recent Summit, I think if you could give a little bit more color of perhaps a couple of the vexing problems that were thoughtfully and deliberately discussed. As here's the first stage of where we need to be working together in a broader coalition in order to affect the change that we're seeking.

[00:25:29] Alphonso David: So we host both a Business Summit and a public convention every year, and we do it at the Essence Festival of Culture. We host activations outside of that as well. But for the purposes of this conversation, let's just talk about our Business Summit and our public convention at the Essence Festival of Culture.

At the Business Summit, we were honored to have the Vice President of the United States, Kamala Harris, come and speak. And she spoke about a variety of issues, from the affirmative action decision that had just been issued that day, to economic opportunity, to public-private partnerships, and talking about how business leaders can and should consider additional strategies for thinking about how we explore public-private partnerships and the benefit that has for marginalized communities.

We also had the CEO and a senior executive from Gilead Sciences talking about the future of healthcare. And as you know, unfortunately, the Black community and the Brown community confront significant health disparities. And so, they talked about those health disparities and what the potential solutions are to addressing them.

We also had the former president of Liberia, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, and the US ambassador to the United Nations, Linda Thomas-Greenfield, come and speak about women and leadership. Specifically thinking about this ecosystem of leaders that exists globally and how so few of them are women, and what do we do about it? And why is it important to make sure that we're diversifying the leaders that exist globally?

And one of the solutions to that was the Global Black Economic Forum is now providing a three-year grant to The Ellen Johnson Sirleaf Presidential Foundation. They are in the process of creating cohorts of women leaders throughout the continent of Africa.

As you may know, she was the first President of any country on the continent of Africa and she has now created a Presidential Center and one of the functions of her foundation is to really support women who are looking to be leaders in political spaces all over the world, but she's really focused on the continent of Africa right now. And so that was one of the solutions.

And then finally, I'll say, we announced a coalition of thirteen (13) social justice and economic justice organizations to respond to what I will briefly call the anti-woke movement that we're seeing take hold throughout this country and in other parts of the world. And it's everything from, you know, banning Black history in schools, to challenging diversity and inclusion programs, both at the national and local levels, to suing venture capital firms for simply trying to provide a support to other women of color to address what we're seeing as systemic disparities that exist.

And so, this coalition of 13 organizations, and we specifically picked 13 because it was in reference to the 13th Amendment, which abolished slavery, but we're seeing vestiges of it just remain and amplified in our policy and in our practices.

And these organizations are going to be working together collaboratively to work to create blueprints that can hopefully rebut what we're seeing in states all over the country. All of these organizations do great work, but we think it's really important that we collaborate, that we are coordinating our work to make sure that we are addressing the attacks that we're seeing on marginalized communities.

[00:29:17] Jason Rudman: And again, as I listen to you, where I immediately go in, you know, my learning and my history, is back to the civil rights movement and the coalitions that formed, right, in order to, in order to bring legislation through and to create, one could argue, at least a foundation from which you can now argue from for everything that you described in terms of in terms of advancing equity.

I'm also struck because you mentioned healthcare — I'm struck by the increasing intersectionality of economic health, physical health, access to education, access to health and the ability to lead a more bountiful financial life that you have economic access.

The reason I bring that up is because I think there's this increasing intersection, and I'd love to know if you're seeing it and you agree, whereby previously we tended to tackle many things homogeneously or as monolines. And I think what we're seeing is you can't do one without the other, or you can't do A without B and C.

[00:30:25] Alphonso David: You're absolutely right. When we think of equity, or better framed, when we think of inequities, we must appreciate that those inequities don't operate in silos. That if there's an inequity in healthcare, that inequity is going to have an impact on employment and then it will extend into wealth generation, and then it will extend into housing, and then it will extend into the other facets of our lives.

People don't just simply fall into poverty. There are some instances [where] they're born into poverty. In other instances, they find themselves in poverty because of something that happens in their lives, a triggering event that forces them into poverty.

People don't want to stay in poverty, but they find themselves in these spaces because of the systems that exist that have failed to address the inequities within their lives. We can talk about health care. We can talk about employment. We can talk about public accommodations. We can talk about credit. We can talk about education. All of those are linked.

And if we have an inequitable education system, which we know we do, we cannot expect that when you graduate from high school, person X is going to have the same educational skill set as person Y, because we know that our education system is fractured. We know that some students don't have updated books and others are using computers.

So, if we know that, why do we assume that these kids are going to graduate and have the same skillset where they will be able to meaningfully compete with each other for jobs? And that's just within the education system.

So you look at healthcare, the same problem. You look at public accommodation, [the] same problem. You look at access to credit, [and the] same problem. And so as we're looking to dismantle these systems or refine them, or use whatever the adjective is that's more comfortable, we need new systems to help us address the inequities that exist in so many facets of our lives. Otherwise, we're addressing one without addressing another and then not realizing the relationship, the direct causal relationship that they have to systemic inequities that ultimately lead to poverty and the other ills of society.

[00:33:01] Jason Rudman: I think that's the part for me, Alphonso. As I listen to you and we talk about this, the horizontal connected nature of inequity, that it can't be, you know, it's not whack-a-mole. Or you might find yourself in a game of whack-a-mole, and that is not efficient, and neither is it effective if your ultimate goal is to make the system work for everybody.

[00:33:23] Alphonso David: Well, I think we need to ask ourselves that question. Is everyone in support of a system that is equitable?

It's a difficult question. I think in so many instances, we assume that everyone is in support of this principle. And I don't believe that that's true in all cases. So, we have to have the difficult conversations with those who may not support this concept of equity in all forms and have that conversation as to why.

[00:33:55] Jason Rudman: Right. And, in the current environment that we're in, being able to have that conversation in a rational, factual, advancing type of way, I think it gets back to the challenge of getting the right people in the room and then being able to come out with ideas and solutions that are actually going to move the ball down the field.

To your point, this work is not easy, the conversation is not easy. And on some level, as you and I go backwards and forwards here, we're on the, you know, if I could reach around and we could be on the same side of the screen, right, we would say, well, look, we understand that we're in it. We need more people on this side in order to make the systems and the structures work equitably for more people.

[00:34:43] Alphonso David: Yes, and I would say that there are two things that drive this conversation for me.

One is our collective unwillingness to engage in meaningful debate. We now live in a space culturally where I'm right, and you're wrong, you're right, and I'm wrong. And there's very little space to have a conversation, a meaningful conversation, and debate about issues. And we have to be willing to create those spaces. Otherwise, we're talking past each other. And it's us versus them. That's not sustainable.

The second is that as we have these conversations, we have to be willing to be uncomfortable. And if we're willing to be uncomfortable, maybe, just maybe, we might discover something about ourselves and our argument that may surprise us.

You know, my father would say to me, if you're screaming, that means you've lost the argument, and I see all too often that people are screaming at each other. No one's listening. And if you are not willing to listen, you're not willing to see me. And I'm not willing to see you.

And yes, I understand those conversations are difficult when people don't actually see you as a human being, but what's the alternative? If the alternative is I'm going to completely ignore who you are as a person, we've lost that person. We've lost that conversation. We've lost that ability to actually engage. And again, I'm not saying each and every conversation is possible. But I'm saying we need to try. Because there are instances where we can inform people, we can address misinformation, disinformation, and biases in a way that we won't unless we engage.

[00:36:31] Jason Rudman: So your Dad clearly was a wise man, right? And we know that. For those listening, I promise I did not feed Alphonso the whole idea that we've got two ears and one mouth. And if we actually put the two ears to work a little bit more and the mouth of the less, you would get to what More Elephant is about, which is thought leadership for today's world, where if we listen, we learn. And if we learn, we live better, not just for ourselves, but for everybody around us.

So I thank you for that. I think that's a good bookend here because I also wanted to get from you, and I think you described it really well in kind of like a two-parter is like, where do we go from here if we want lasting visible change? And I think we have to start to listen more and put aside a lot of our preconceived notions in order to learn from each other. And again, create.

I come back to the structures and the systems that currently stand in the way of economic justice and in a system and a structure where nobody wins.

How do we get involved? So, how does somebody like Jason Rudman get involved? What's your guidance? What's your insight, through the Global Black Economic Forum or other avenues where people can learn more about you, learn more about the work that you're doing, and effectively, if this speaks to them, get involved in what you artfully described at the beginning as change? Hard work, exhausting at times, but this is ultimately the change that many of us, multidimensional change, many of us want to see in order to create a more equitable world.

[00:38:13] Alphonso David: A few things I would say for folks, and thank you for asking that question.

I would ask folks to go to our website, which is www.gbef.com. Stands for the Global Black Economic Forum. And at the bottom of the page, it says, contact us. Reach out to us, and we will contact you and identify all the ways you can get involved.

I would also suggest that you consider coming to one of our conferences. We're hosting a major conference next year, July of 2024, in New Orleans. It's a lot of fun, but it's also a lot of thought leadership. And you'll have an opportunity to engage in a meaningful way on issues that range from healthcare to wealth generation to the future of work. So, I would suggest doing that as well.

We will be issuing newsletters and we will end up doing that on a quarterly basis because there's so much information that we think is important for people to have.

And then, finally, I would say, to the extent you're not currently engaged, engage civically. We have a profound and meaningful opportunity to affect change in this country that doesn't exist in all countries. That is the right to vote.

I know that it can sometimes be difficult. I know that sometimes the hours for voting may not be convenient. I know the lines may be long, and it may be cold outside if you have to vote. But that is one of the most important and powerful tools we have individually to express our views and our voice.

And, if we stop using it, it's difficult for us to utilize our power after the fact. After someone is elected, we have to wait for a cycle or two to be able to use our voices in the same way. So I would strongly advise if you're not involved civically, and it's not just for presidential elections. Your rights are impacted by your city council and by your school board.

If you have children, your school board definitely, and even if you don't, who you elect as your mayor will affect your sanitation policy, who you elect as your representative or your legislator may affect your taxes. So, get involved and use your voice there as much as possible.

[00:40:30] Jason Rudman: Your school boards, right?

[00:40:32] Alphonso David: If you have children, your school board definitely, and even if you don't, who you elect as your mayor will affect your sanitation policy, who you elect as your representative or your legislator may affect your taxes. So, get involved and use your voice there as much as possible.

[00:40:51] Jason Rudman: I want to thank you for your time. Thank you for using your voice and your power to shine a light on the potential because it's still potential, right?

The potential that we have to create a more equitable experience in this country and beyond, whereby everybody has a fairer shot at living their best life.

I appreciate your time, Alphonso. I have a feeling we're going to come back. and talk a little bit more. If you would grant me, I know you're incredibly busy, but if you would grant me that opportunity, I have a feeling that what we've talked about today, we're just, we're scratching the surface. So, thank you. Just thank you for taking the time. So appreciate it.

[00:41:34] Alphonso David: You're welcome. Thank you for having me.

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