Women, Money and Unlocking The Future Transcript

More Elephant Intro

[00:00:38] Jason Rudman: It's time for the latest More Elephant Podcast, and like many of the conversations I have, this one is something about history. So I'm delighted to welcome Lorna Kapusta, who is the head of women and engagement for Fidelity Investments to the podcast.

The short story on this is Lorna and I first worked together at American Express on the same team, reporting to the same person. And that started in December of 2003. So that is nearly 21 years ago. Can you believe it, Lorna?

[00:01:13] Lorna Kapusta: I cannot believe it, but I'm so excited that we're connecting and it feels like that was just yesterday. 

[00:01:20] Jason Rudman: It feels like it was just yesterday, and I think we were sharing as we were getting ready for this, we have been appropriately stalking each other's careers, like in the background, as we've grown families, we've got pets and we've moved to different parts of the country.

And yet, to your point, it feels like yesterday that we were sitting in a conference room on the 28th floor. I think it might've been, trying to figure out how to build a small business experience that would serve people in a fascinating way.

[00:01:47] Lorna Kapusta: It was the 28th floor. I can't believe you remember that. And my greatest joy, which I mentioned to you, has been stalking you and watching your beautiful and amazing family.

[00:01:57] Jason Rudman: Well, right back at you, right back at you. So this is going to be a great conversation. Lorna said, ‘Hey, I'll put my filter on appropriately. We’'re going to talk about the journey that got Lorna to be, again, the head of Women in Engagement, which is a fascinating story in itself.

And I know there are a number of More Elephant moments along the way that got you to that point. But I'd love to start with, if you would for our listeners, describe the work because, again, the title is Head of Women in Engagement. So could you describe the work and at its core, what it seeks to achieve?

[00:02:32] Lorna Kapusta: Yeah, so I think it starts with just an understanding of the financial industry, which, you know, developed 70-plus years ago, and when it was built, the concept of investing and trading, predominantly 99% of the people who worked at these companies were men.

And so, they built it in the image of what they know, which makes sense. Fast-forward to today, and the access to financial planning, investing, and growing wealth so that you can achieve your goals is something that needs to be for everybody.

And so Fidelity, where I work, is very committed to making sure that we develop experiences, and solutions, that really help everybody. And we really focus on women because, historically and culturally, women were not part of the industry and we're often told it's taboo to talk money or inappropriate. 

That's changing, but we're not necessarily given the grounding and foundation to get in there and feel comfortable. So, everything that we do is around how we focus on women as the center, understand they have unique needs and a different life journey and make sure we build everything that we do so that it serves their needs and helps them achieve their goals with their money.

[00:03:48] Jason Rudman: Love that. So how did you get to the work? So how is the uniqueness of the journey, which we can go into depth, and I think if you could drop some insight for our audience that may not have the perspective tied to the work that you've done, but how does that connect to your journey and your origin story?

And I know for sure there's a More Elephant moment in there because you wrote very deliberately about it probably five, six, seven years ago. There was an aha moment as you started this work.

[00:04:16] Lorna Kapusta: Yeah. So what I would first say is I'm going to take us back to the time you and I worked together years ago. And I think collectively we had a wonderful leader and what we really focused on is how do we understand our customers, and their needs, and make everything that we do be built for them.

Love that journey, lots of different things that American Express but when it came to Fidelity, my elephant or aha moment was I spent most of my career growing a family, three children, now three dogs and a cat. We moved around the country a little bit and [I] was highly financially stressed.

Always worried, were we going to have enough for ourselves and our children? And, I joined a women's workshop at Fidelity. I came really just to do other work and had a major moment where I realized I was stressed, but I wasn't engaging in financial planning or thinking about investing. And often, were not communicating, my husband and I, on what our goals were and what we were doing with our money.

That women's workshop felt like a judgment-free space where I could learn get involved and I could better understand all the different things that I could do and how I could work with somebody to really help develop a financial plan that worked for my husband and I. And, it was a game changer for me.

The opportunity arose to lead this work shortly thereafter, and I'll tell you, I jumped at it because what I really wanted was every person, women in particular, to have that aha moment and be able to access the help and support so they can do what they want to with their money. Because money is about helping us live the life we dream up. And so, that's kind of the big moment.

[00:05:59] Jason Rudman: How would you personalize that? So you had the big moment, but there's something about what you were taught or the environment that you were in, which I think is true for so many women, that means they don't get the unlock unless they're part of a program.

What was in your history that meant that it wasn't until five or six years ago that the aha came and it didn't happen when you were going through college or it didn't happen when you were building your career at American Express and indeed it didn't happen within the confines of the great relationship that you have with your husband where you weren't on the same page around finances?

[00:06:34] Lorna Kapusta: So it's funny, but what I experienced is so common with so many people, individuals and couples. And I'm going to say, you know I'm someone who went to college. I actually also got a business degree, and I started working and you have a growing career and growing family. I'll tell you, I had this self-expectation [that] I should know this stuff. I felt bad that I wasn't doing it. And I think if people knew, I would be judged. And I realized - I talked to so many women, I really talked to thousands of women across the country [who] feel the same way - no one teaches you the financial basics.

We don't learn it in high school. Now programs are starting, which is good. No one teaches you in college. My family didn't have those conversations. And so, I just never had access to it. And so, I think the change, and that everyone can have this change, [is] we have developed programs that get out there to hundreds of thousands of women.

You don't actually need to be a Fidelity customer to be part of it, but it's just engaging in the conversation. It's understanding the help that is available and also letting ourselves not judge ourselves for what we haven't done, but start where we are.

We just have a lot of guilt and judgment, and I think so many people do, especially when they haven't done something. And just really understanding help that's available. You think you have to have a lot of money to get financial help. You don't. There's help for everybody.

So there's just a lot that got unlocked once I allowed myself to not feel bad about what I wasn't doing and really more focus on what I could do and that I could start where I was and that I could get to a better place.

My big moment I have to tell you is when I started doing that, I started getting involved, having conversations, getting help, not just like my financial stress went down significantly. I actually became more confident overall where I let myself feel okay in other areas; that I may not know things and to say, I don't know, and I just work to figure it out. So it was kind of a game changer, not just with my financial planning, but helping me more broadly.

[00:08:31] Jason Rudman: I think that's fascinating because I've always maintained that your financial health is so connected to your emotional health, your mental health. And we very often see or don't treat them as this whole self-expression.

So I don't underestimate and double-down on what you said, which is the unlock around can I take some of the stress away from how I live financially has corresponding benefits to other areas of your life.

So what is the setup? So how does somebody start taking the good medicine and get engaged in the programmatic side of what Fidelity does for women?

[00:09:10] Lorna Kapusta: I'll tell you, there's a couple of different things. I think just overall, there's things that we do that I'll talk about called Women Talk Money. I think for everybody, what I did not know, and everybody should know, and it's Fidelity, but other financial institutions, you can actually call and get help. And that, those initial conversations are free.

So the first thing I would say is, if you want to do something, you don't know where to start, you have a couple of questions, reach out and call because you can get help, and that is what people are trained to do.

I know Fidelity does this and we work on that. It's judgment-free. But if you're not ready to do that, programs that we've developed, something, as I mentioned, called Women Talk Money.

We started Women Talk Money, which is a financial community for women, during the pandemic where, if you recall that time, we worried about our health, people were worried about their jobs. They didn't know where they're going to be in six months.

And, it created a stream of questions: Do I have enough? What if I lose my job? How much do I need emergency savings?

So we jumped on Zoom and started having conversations. I would moderate with financial professionals who are women, who work with clients every day. And we're addressing the stream of questions that were coming in when people really started engaging in a big way. We thought we'd do it for a few weeks, honestly, just to get out there and provide help, available to everybody, because they needed it.

What we thought we'd do for a few weeks turned into extreme demand, where we work with a lot of employers, and they wanted to provide all of that help to their employees. We work with clients directly, and we got the message out to them that we were doing this and they could join us. And it took off from there.

Now it is a regular program. I think there are about six hundred thousand (600,000) women and allies in the community and we talk everything from how to get started investing through retirement planning, estate planning, and caregiving, and we talk career.

So we've really broadened it and it is help straight to your inbox. You can join conversations. There's a live chat supporting, recognizing and really celebrating one another and it's judgment-free and available to everybody.

[00:11:21] Jason Rudman: I love how you took us on an arc because it started  - an arc, a-r-c for everybody listening, because the accent is like, what did he just say? So I love the arc that starts in the pandemic in a moment of extreme stress, where I think we as humans were figuring out how to restate connection, but the power of technology in the arc takes you from financial to emergency savings and, to your point, you're now talking about career as well.

So, can you explain the career piece a little? Is it connected to how you get the best out of your career in order to generate enough income [and] assets to be able to invest? What's the connection between living well financially to having career conversations in the environment that you're in.

[00:12:10] Lorna Kapusta: I would say exactly what you said. So it's everything from how to navigate your career, how to advocate for your worth. Women, historically, when it comes to negotiating what's important to them, be it financially, or it could be just flexibility, have done less or have been less comfortable and less confident in doing so.

So it's really around helping to provide examples and the toolset for everybody to be able to advocate for themselves, negotiate, and just make sure they're getting the most out of that career journey.

And, we bring in folks who have had those experiences, and who are experts in this space. We sometimes have celebrities who join us because they're so committed to really helping one another and giving them the tool set and sharing their own experiences. A great example is Venus Williams who joined and the most authentic, engaging, just so fun conversation; all the work that she's done around advocating for herself, [and] advocating for women in the industry and beyond.

She shared the tools, the journey, the ups and the downs and in a very authentic way, just to get out there and help. And that's why it's been so amazing. It's women coming together to support one another and keep it real.

[00:13:27] Jason Rudman: I think that's so important because the connection there is the lived experience, right?

We have things we still need to solve for. So, within the context of helping people understand how to invest wisely and live better economically, we've still got to solve for the fact that women earn less in an equal role than men, right? I think the latest stat is probably 87 cents on the dollar for women.

[00:13:53] Lorna Kapusta: Actually I think less than that. I think it's around the low eighties. 

[00:13:55] Jason Rudman: Low 80s. All right. We're going to go low 80s, but women of color, it's 67 cents on a dollar, right? So we even have disparity. 

We've had a couple of people on the podcast: Mical Jeanlys-White was talking about the disparity and what she's trying to do from a financial advisor perspective to level the playing field. I connect that to what Venus has been able to do in tennis because she's been out there advocating for equal prize money in the tournaments.

The story of Venus and [her willingness] to put herself out there with the likes of Billie Jean King to advocate for equal pay for equal work connects so fundamentally to some of the changes we still have to make in the system. I think ultimately, what you're doing and what the program is doing is one of the ways to help people build durable generational wealth, one of the huge challenges we still have in this country and indeed around the world. And then particularly with women, figuring out how to do that on behalf of their families.

[00:14:53] Lorna Kapusta: That's exactly right. And that's really what it's all about. It's just arming her with all of the tools, and I would say support, and providing help to feel more confident and take action for yourself and what's important to you.

[00:15:06] Jason Rudman: And would you reflect on it also being a safe space as well?

I think you talked about being able to shed some of your vulnerabilities. There's something about the dynamic of women helping women and women being in that space that I think encourages much more psychologically safe and vulnerable conversations.

[00:15:24] Lorna Kapusta: It very much is. I sometimes get asked why we have something that is for women. And I have to believe every one of our listeners has had the moment where you could be in a business meeting or you're having a conversation and you say something and then you say to yourself, Oh God, was that a dumb thing to say? And you're thinking everyone is judging you.

In these environments that we've created, where it's women only, there's no dumb questions. It's judgment-free, it's safe, and it's supportive.

And oftentimes, what we find is when we offer similar things, and we have both men and women, women have a tendency to speak less, to ask less questions, and they fear being judged.

In this space, it is full reign. Ask any question, get support and really just feel good. Help one another to feel good and more confident in everything that we do.

[00:16:13] Jason Rudman: What are some of the highlights in the work that you've done that you share with the audience that surprised you in a good way? You know, the power of getting women talking to other women about their financial experience and how we put them on a path to a better outcome. What would be some of the moments, I'm going to call them More Elephant moments, that have stuck with you.

[00:16:34] Lorna Kapusta: I have to tell you, I think the greatest joy of this work is the women that I connect with across the country. One woman, her husband had passed away, and [she] had not been involved. And it happened pretty suddenly. And the fact that she felt safe reaching out to me to help create the connections and really get her the support that she needed.

And that's one example, but I can tell you there are so many examples where people are having sometimes a really challenging life event, a sad life event, but also a great life event can happen as well, where someone, let's say we've helped the first pregnancy and wants to start off and that was the moment for her that she wants to start from the right foot and understand what she should be doing for herself and for her unborn child to really help them in the future.

And I would tell you, it spans the gamut. The greatest thing as of recent that I'm most excited about…we have been doing a lot of research and work and learned that this gap in women not feeling as confident about their finances and money actually starts really early.

So, we're talking the teen years, where we see young boys are really excited about investing and at a really young age, where girls early on, really are a bit intimidated by it or feel a bit uncomfortable. Recently, we created a program that is completely focused on teen girls and it's really about having a parent or a guardian or a mentor work with teen girls.

It's available videos, conversation starters, and tools because we've realized that we want to help everybody who is an adult today when doing what they're doing, but if we really want to change the game, we've got to focus on starting earlier and equipping young girls with the tools, the help and the knowledge that they need so they can be more successful, be more confident early on.

[00:18:30] Jason Rudman: We had a conversation in a previous podcast with Evan Leapheart and Mike Gross, who have a company called Kredit Academy. What's fascinating about what you talked about is they started their company, Kiddie Kredit, and it is exactly about teaching financial literacy around the area of credit to teens and young adults to understand the power of that. Evan’s note was ‘I want to be the vitamin, and not the pain pill.’ In your origin story, you talked about the fact that you hadn't learned the things that you now know, and if you'd learned them earlier, that would have deescalated or de-stressed how you felt about money and the financial situation and the pressures when you've got three kids and three dogs and a cat o make sure that you provide.

I feel the same way. I'm the first person in my family to go to college. So, what it was is about making ends meet. It wasn't about compounding interest. And I don't think anybody in my family actually knew what the stock market was.

The journey that you and I have gone through individually to learn that and the power of being able to give that to our kids and the power to give that at a young age… What are you seeing in the research about the way that we interact with and put our norms on our kids, boys versus girls, that leads boys to be comfortable with investing.

Is it because we talk to them differently or we have different expectations of them? Is there anything in the research that helps us understand why we're still manifesting those very, very long-held tropes that boys do finances and girls do housework? I hate that, but it feels some version of that. 

[00:20:15] Lorna Kapusta: So, we haven't seen why. I think you probably hit on it. I think it's just cultural norms persisting.

What the research did tell us is parents can have a really big influence and oftentimes, when we're speaking to young girls, it's typically about their spending and maybe saving. When parents are having conversations with young boys, they go into the topic of investing in a very different way. And so, those are things that we need to change. And you know, one thing I do with my kids is I really try to speak to them equally because I do think saving and spending is important but as well as investing.

And I think there's this myth that you need a lot of money to start to invest. Or I think I did. I thought you needed a lot of money to get help and to invest, but you can actually start with a dollar.

And I think the biggest thing is like when you start earlier and you just talked about compounding interest over time and earnings upon earnings. People think, Hey, if I just put a dollar, it's not going to do anything. Actually over time, you know, you're talking a span of forty (40) years, you keep on putting in a dollar every week, that is going to help you achieve the greatest potential. So I'm just trying to do that with all of my kids equally. And I think we, as a society, all need to be more balanced in the help that we provide.

[00:21:31] Jason Rudman: I've got a ten (10) year-old that has a Roth IRA that we set up, because he actually makes money. It's a whole separate conversation, it's legal, and above board for anybody listening. If you've been into a Gap store, you might have seen him. So he does that infrequently, but you know, it's fascinating, right?

He has a gig tomorrow. He's working four hours. He can do four gigs a year in a school year. We only allow him to come out of school for four days in the year and we're very purposeful about it. He's got a virtual reality gig tomorrow. Lorna, he is going to work for four hours and makes seventeen hundred dollars.

[00:22:05] Lorna Kapusta: Wow. Good for him.

[00:22:08] Jason Rudman: And you've reminded me that I've got to make sure that even at eight, I bring my daughter into that conversation, who has no desire to do what he does, but needs to learn about the power of putting money in today, and then how does the financial system work such that you can earn on average over time, seven (7) to eight (8) percent on your money by just putting it into a vehicle that does something magical. You've reminded me that I've got to make sure that even at eight, I can have that conversation with her. And it's a very side-by-side conversation.

[00:22:39] Lorna Kapusta: You very much should. And I think I would say for him, and I'm going to send you a slide that we share…actually, there's two slides. It's just a visual. It's a great visual.

And I call it the kick in the pants slide. We've called it the aha moment, but really what it does is it shows you the difference between putting money in a savings account, you know, very basic savings account in a bank versus the potential of investing. And when you see the difference just over five years, very conservative investments. You get the kick in the pants about why you want to do it.

There's also a slide that outlines what the different options are, because I think everyone feels like you have to pick stocks. There's several ways to kind of get started that there's something about investing, boring investing, that actually can be really quite successful. And the other thing I do talk to my kids about is this balance between saving, investing, and spending, and you have to have balance to do both.

Your son should have some fun and enjoyment with that money because that's why we work, but it's really knowing, and I'm sure you have this conversation, how to do it in a way that you've got a certain percent that goes to fun, but the rest really should go to saving and then a chunk that should go for the future. And I would say that conversation, no one ever had it with me.

[00:23:50] Jason Rudman: No one ever had it with me. I love that because I think we blunt force it. So again, the beauty of this conversation for people listening is I've learned something to go back and have a more nuanced conversation because we blunt forced it.

You get a check. 20 percent of it actually has a debit account. He has a youth account tied to Alvin's ID. So, we show him how to use the debit card. But look, his goal originally was to get a Lamborghini. Both his dad and I were very clear. It was like well, we're never gonna buy you a Lamborghini—I just want to point out—but here's how you can get a Lamborghini.

You have to figure out what your talent is and market it in such a way that the world says, ah, you know what? I like that. So always be a force for good, and then we take the check, and it's 70 percent of it immediately goes into the Roth. 10% actually the state keeps for a fund because of challenges they've had with kids that have earned money and they've never seen anything of it. So, even the state does something really, really good now.

Then 20 percent of it goes into the bank account, but his immediate response is great. Now I have 20 percent. What can I go buy? So I'm going to take the kick in the pants, so I might edit it to be the More Elephant moment slide, but we'll go the same with the aha! 

[00:24:57] Lorna Kapusta: I think that sounds great.

[00:24:59] Jason Rudman: I love it, I love it. Clearly, this work is important to you, given the lived experience that you've had and what you've learned through it. Why is the work important to Fidelity? And I say that in the context of not every investment company has a head of women in engagement. So why important to Fidelity beyond the obvious, I think on some level which is, Hey, it would be great if you invest with Fidelity. 

[00:25:23] Lorna Kapusta: So first, Abby Johnson heads the company, and I think it's awesome to have a leader—she happens to be a woman—[who] has a deep understanding of the historical and cultural issues and is truly committed to supporting every individual but wanted to make sure she was really investing resources to make sure that every experience, everything that we do understands the unique needs and preferences of women, and that's a lot of the work that we do.

I would also say that we, Fidelity, works directly with clients [and] we also have a very large business that supports retirement plans. So that's both 401Ks and then 403Bs, so that's more for the tax-exempt market, not for profits, heavy education, healthcare. In those businesses, we are responsible for supporting not just retirement, but also helping financial wellness. If you look at the employee base today because we work very closely with those employers, almost 50 percent are women. And so our job is to make sure that we are helping employers create overall wellness and financial wellness for their employees. That is our commitment.

Employers have large women's leadership groups. We work with them day in and day out. So, it's a larger commitment. Fidelity cares, I have to tell you, and really cares about its relationships across. And that is why it goes, I would say, the extra mile to invest and make sure that we are doing everything that we can.

I'm also going to tell you—I mentioned this earlier—women do have a unique journey in their life. Two thirds of the caregivers are women. There's financial implications. And oftentimes it's not just one time, but several times in their lives. Women on average, actually live, outlive male counterparts by about five (5) to seven (7) years, and women throughout their lives have higher health care costs, about twenty (20) percent and that carries into retirement.

So, if you think about all those financial differences, when there's factual differences, they need to be focused on. And you need to make sure that you have the right help and the right solutions to plan and build for all those differences so that women can live throughout their life the way that they want and really enjoy those later years where the luxury of retirement and longevity.

[00:27:46] Jason Rudman: I love that for many reasons, especially given my lived experience where you started, which is two-thirds of women are caregivers. Because I think there's also the caregiver narrative there, which I think comes with a bunch of stereotypes, comes with a bunch of unconscious and conscious bias about how things should be sold, how you got to where you got to the opportunities or lack thereof that you have in front of you.

And I personally align with that. And I think you had mentioned early on, this is about women and allies, because I'm a caregiver, my husband's a caregiver and so there's so much insight that if you strip away the, oh, well, we're talking to women, that many of us are playing the caregiver role and are living the same journey that is not about gender. It's about the actual function of what we're providing for our families, which is care.

[00:28:41] Lorna Kapusta: That's a spot on. And we do take a very big focus on caregivers because they do have different life circumstances that they need to plan for. And that's what we try to help do.

[00:28:53] Jason Rudman: What have you learned through the process? So I know there's going to be some obvious things, which is I sit my kids down, and we talk about saving, we talk about investing, we talk about spending. How has it impacted your life as a woman in leadership? And then as a parent?

[00:29:07] Lorna Kapusta: It's a good question. I think it's made my life more fulfilling as a leader. I work hard, but I also feel lucky that I'm able to lead such an organization that's so passionate and committed to helping women be more confident and more successful.

And having that purpose-driven responsibility just fills my cup, honestly, and I just want to continue to do it and do it more. Personally, I think I mentioned this, but I think, given my own journey with my finances and with figuring out my own overall financial wellness, has helped with my overall mental wellness, I think it's actually made me a better wife, a better mother. And I think the combination of the two has just enabled me to feel like I'm contributing to the greater good in a bigger way.

[00:30:00] Jason Rudman: I feel like that's a More Elephant moment in and of itself that the work that you do and the connection you have makes you feel like you're a better mother and a better parent in a way that your kids and your husband would probably say ‘and we feel it, and we get the benefit of all of that every day.’

[00:30:18] Lorna Kapusta: Ah, I would hope they would. Some days I'll bet you they would.

[00:30:21] Jason Rudman: I think they do if we ask them. You mentioned that you're national in scope. Are there local expressions where the Fidelity experience shows up in a different way, or is it truly national in scope?

[00:30:32] Lorna Kapusta: I will tell you the power of technology really enabled us to be national and get out there to everybody. We do on a more local level, because we have these large employer relationships and we work with women's leadership groups, we do sometimes do things that are more local with employees. So that is more selective because we're, like every business, balancing getting out there and providing the greater good versus just being able to do it more locally.

So we try to strike the right balance because when six-hundred-thousand (600,000) women are part of a community and we serve nineteen (19) million women across, we want to get out there and help everybody.

[00:31:12] Jason Rudman: You serve nineteen (19) million women across—that is the addressable market within Fidelity? 

[00:31:18] Lorna Kapusta: Fidelity customers.

[00:31:19] Jason Rudman: Excellent. So what's next as you continue to lead?

I know you well enough to know that you don't sit still. As you said, you work hard. So as we think about the future, and continuing to engage women on their finances and having ownership of those decisions and feeling comfortable making those decisions. What's next for the program or the experience that you have and indeed where Abby is leading Fidelity?

[00:31:45] Lorna Kapusta: I think there's just so much opportunity for us to expand in new channels, and test new technologies. Something's popping up every day. And I would also say do more, not just for women, but you know, the makeup of relationships is different today.

And so for us to really, I would say, advance to helping whatever you call that family unit, be it a single person or with a new family makeup, how do we continue to advance our offerings to meet the needs of the new family makeup and the journey and the future that they want as things are changing

Retirement and how people view retirement is just different than what we talked about years ago. And so, I think there's continuous and ample opportunity for us to stay connected with the people and really understand how we can evolve in this ever changing environment.

[00:32:39] Jason Rudman: And what would then be the most immediate need that you're hearing from your audience?

As professionals, I'm in a financial services space beyond More Elephant, if we're all in this together, rowing in the same direction to help improve the financial well-being of the people that we serve agnostic to who they are, just doing good in the world—what's the most immediate need that you're hearing in this changing environment that you just described? 

[00:33:03] Lorna Kapusta: It's so interesting that you asked that because you know, there's a regular set of top needs that we hear, which is you can say, retirement money, but it's not necessarily the old terminology of retirement. It's enough money, so I can do what I want to do. So I think, how do I get there? How do I do that? That, I think, is one of the top questions that we always get.

I also do want to recognize though there's so many people who are just starting out and trying to figure it out and really just helping. How do I build an emergency savings? And really making sure our solutions are available to help people do that. So, if you've got emergency savings, you can sleep at night better. And so it really expands the gamut on the everyday needs that yes, things are changing, but there's very much a ‘staying the same’ of people want peace of mind and they don't want to be stressing about money.

It's a top stressor for men and women, women a bit more than men. And so those are the basics that we hear on the two bookends of people really wanting to know how to get here and how to do that?

[00:34:03] Jason Rudman: Undoubtedly we just come through a hot period of inflation. We've come through a pandemic. To your point, the notion of what retirement means is changing and there is a thirst for knowledge and strategies to say, okay, in this net new world, how do I put a roof over my family's head? How do I get on the path to homeownership if I'm not on that path? And how do I build durable, as I said, durable generational wealth? I think that ultimately, you and I as parents know that part of what we're trying to do is create a bit of a softer landing for our kids.

[00:34:40] Lorna Kapusta: Yeah, as parents, we want to protect and support them. Of course. It becomes the primary instinct.

[00:34:46] Jason Rudman: It is. It's the primary instinct, even though I think you and I would argue that we do want them to work a little. They do need to work a little bit for it. Like, I'm not writing you a blank check; you've got to work a little bit for it.

[00:34:56] Lorna Kapusta: Definitely not. What I try to share is I get joy in my work. And it's funny. I was on LinkedIn the other day and someone had asked a question about advice for their daughter who was starting out. And my greatest advice when it comes to work is to focus on something that you're passionate about. Don't worry about what it is, but really dive into something that you wake up every day and you are excited to learn more, do more, and keep going. 

And I think that is the advice that I share with my kids—really just find something that you really deeply care about. 

[00:35:29] Jason Rudman: I think it's the wisdom of our age. We're not that old, but we have wisdom, I think. For most people won't see a video representation of this, we don't show it. You look great, by the way. I just want to point that out. We look good. I shared with somebody recently that my advice to my kids would be 'be the writer and the producer of your play, not an actor in somebody else's'.

[00:35:49] Lorna Kapusta: I love that. My dad would share that with me. You say it so eloquently, but I feel like that's right. And I think that's fantastic advice, so I may leverage it. Thank you.

[00:35:58] Jason Rudman: Yeah, absolutely. The writer and producer of your play, not an actor in somebody else's.

And I think it's all about joy. The joy of what you do, having just spent an hour with you is evident, and I say to my kids, they're like, how was work? I was like, it was joyful today, it's not always been that way, but like you, I'm in a spot where there's joy in what I'm solving for, there's joy in what I'm thinking about. And I think, as you said, we work hard, but at the end of the day, we're also having an impact, and that feels good as well.

[00:36:27] Lorna Kapusta: I have to say the 1 thing I would say for both of us, if now we hearken back to when we first worked together, is I wish I knew then because there were moments of stress and things would be tough…like the importance of having a joyful day.

[00:36:41] Jason Rudman: Yeah plus one on that, plus one. How do people learn more about the work that Fidelity is doing? How do they connect with you? How can they get involved with some of the great programming that you just talked about?

[00:36:55] Lorna Kapusta: With love for everybody. It is, we do, it is mostly women, but we have many allies that join, I call them my smart allies. So fidelity.com/women, what has access to, I talked about the unique factors women face, how you can kind of get started regardless of where you are. And it has a really nice guided experience to help people get educated.

Through there also, you can access joining the Women Talk Money community. And as I said, it's free to sign up and you get to join discussions and live panels and tips straight to your inbox on career and money. And so I would recommend everybody taking advantage.

And I have to tell you, if someone listens to this and is ready to jump in and realizes, I don't need to have a ton, I want to do more with my finances. I always put out there, call Fidelity. It's 1-800-FIDELITY. They're trained regardless of where you are to help.

And people don't know this, but you call for free and we're there to help with whatever you're trying to achieve. So I always share that because it's something I didn't know and I just want everybody to know that it's available and they should take advantage of it.

[00:38:08] Jason Rudman: And is there a programmatic solution for an employer of scale you know, if you're a large employer and you've got a sizable population of women and allies that you want to create a curated conversation with Fidelity, how might a large employer or somebody listening who said, Hey, I want to take that to my employer and figure out the art of the possible. How does that work?

[00:38:32] Lorna Kapusta: Yes, we selectively work with large employers. I won't name them, but if someone's listening, we have just been doing a few of them. And what's amazing about those, we create a curated program where we have a discussion, we do workshops.

The most exciting part of that is, yes, we join because Fidelity brings the financial expertise, but oftentimes an executive from the company joins that panel conversation and shares their own career and financial journey. And so it's a really nice conversation with executives across the country, sharing themselves, their own journey and then supporting one another.

Anyone can reach out to me. Typically, it's the heads of benefits that are working the broader team to connect in and set it up. But those are things we love doing because having an executive come in and keep it real about their triumphs, their challenges and peeling back the…

You know, you see a big executive and you think they probably have got it under control and always knew what they were doing. And when you have those conversations and you realize most of us did not, it just makes you feel like, okay I can do this. So I love those.

[00:39:42] Jason Rudman: Demystifying the mystery of money. 

[00:39:44] Lorna Kapusta: Yeah. 

[00:39:45] Jason Rudman: All right. Thank you. It's been great. Appreciate you so much. Love the work that you're doing. We are better as a society for people like you engaging and saying, Hey, there's a need and I have a lived experience that if I share it with people, we will all be better off.

So our tagline is Listen, Learn, Live, Better. We've just listened to you and ultimately anybody listening will be living better tomorrow if they follow your advice.

[00:40:13] Lorna Kapusta: It has been my pleasure reconnecting with you. And this conversation just made my week, so I really appreciate it. And it's just so wonderful to see you and again, your wonderful, beautiful, amazing family.

[00:40:27] Jason Rudman: Well right back at you. Right back at you. The three kids, three dogs, and a cat. Love it. 

[00:40:32] Lorna Kapusta: A little bit of a zoo. We love it.

[00:40:35] Jason Rudman: Thanks so much.

[00:40:36] Lorna Kapusta: Awesome. I'll talk to you soon, Jason.

[00:40:38] Jason Rudman: Talk soon. Bye.

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