The Power of Corporate Philanthropy Transcript

More Elephant Intro

Welcome to the latest edition of the More Elephant podcast, where we talk with change makers, idea makers, and just incredibly thoughtful people that I think the world needs to learn more about because they're doing things to create a better lived experience for many people in this world.

I'm delighted to welcome a dear friend who I've known for many years. Dennis Williams is the Head of Corporate Social Responsibility at Warner Brothers Discovery. He's responsible for a few things - philanthropy, social impact, employee engagement, and the aspects of the ESG strategy that Warner Brothers Discovery pursues.

So, we're going to get into an interesting conversation about origin. How origin brought Dennis forward to what he does today and the impact of that work, both on the community at large and the impact that it has on Dennis as a person. So, with that, Dennis, welcome to the conversation. 

[00:01:37] Dennis Williams: Hey, Jason. I'm wondering if there's like theme music, right? Like, what is the sound that people are hearing?

Like, just looking out of the window. 

[00:01:46] Jason Rudman: We have a theme. Well, we have a theme, but we don't have that one. But if you want to riff and sing, you absolutely can. 

[00:01:54] Dennis Williams: Oh, Good Times comes to mind. Good Times. 

[00:01:57] Jason Rudman: There you go. Thank you for that. So. I'm so excited about this conversation because, again, I think that when we think of corporate social responsibility, and we think of leaders like you that sit in that chair and think through that strategically, very often we're like, it's a checkbook and the checkbook kind of opens and magic happens. And it's so much more than that.

Before we go there. I'd like to go right back to the beginning, right? And if you would share your origin story with the folks who are listening to this podcast - how did you get here? What are a couple of the really important, more elephant moments where you just stood, listened and said, this is what I was meant to do. And a couple of the really important people along the way, the who's, right, whether they be in your family or whether they have been in your career that got you to this point.

[00:02:57] Dennis Williams: Wow. Yeah, no, that's a, that's a tall order.

So, it's funny to talk to you about these things. So, I have to be, I'm going to break the, what is it? The fourth wall. What is it called? I'm telling you things that you already know because you know me better than most people on this planet, as a friend for many decades now. But I think, you know, the most important aspects of my origin story, my identity, the way I approach the world, is a direct result of where I come from, right?

So, most people who know me will say, yes, yes, yes, so we know Dennis is from Kansas. Kansas City, Kansas, to be exact. And that's an, it has always served to be a really important anchor for me, the place where I grew up, the people who shaped and influenced me, the people who in the earliest moments of my life believed in me. Who recognized, I think for sure, difference, you know, and I, remember growing up feeling different, not exactly knowing how to define that difference, but also knowing that I was surrounded by people who saw the difference and encouraged the difference. Who supported it, whatever, however, it was going to manifest itself later. You know, it was the boy who didn't want to play basketball when everyone else wanted to play basketball or I wanted to read a book when everyone else wanted to go outside. I wanted to bake a cake, whatever it was, that difference was not demonized in that environment.

I've said this before, but a dear friend of ours, Bevy Smith, that many people know, has a phrase that she is known for, which is ‘it gets greater later.’ But I remember having lunch with Bevy and some other people and Bevy said something that resonated about me. She said, you know, you, she was like, “you know, take Dennis, for example, you can tell that Dennis has been loved and doted on his entire life.”

And she said that, and the table laughed and it stayed with me. And I thought about it for days and days and days. And I was like, Oh my gosh, she's, she's absolutely right. I walk into rooms today because of the way people invested in me my entire life. And those people, you know, obviously in the beginning were my family, but people in my community, my neighbors, my teachers, educators. Smart black guy, polite black guy, black guy with a great smile, whatever it was, it worked for people very early in my life and kind of set me on a particular trajectory.

So, uh, you know, I grew up not, uh, certainly not on the affluent side of town. Many people know that my mother – I’m the oldest of four children that my mother had, biologically, and then others that followed adopted siblings. But I'm the oldest child. My mother had me when she was 16. So, I was born probably about, I don't know, nine months or so after her 16th birthday.

Tt's all right. I turned out okay. You know, it worked out fine for me. She was very determined that her children would have a different outcome than many of the people that she had grown up with or people that we were growing up with. And so, my mother was the very first intentional ‘parent’ that I had in my life. She directed and guided my sisters and I and my brother in terms of our education.

She married the man who raised me, who was my father. He was aligned with her in that purpose and that mission. So, you know, if she said we were reading, then he took us to the library to get library cards. And so, those were the kinds of influences that I had early on.

And then I would say THE most foundational influence for all of us, my mother, my father, my siblings, everyone, was my grandmother, who was the very definition of matriarch. I tell a story about reading a book in school and when I was, you know, second or third grade or something and I came across the word matriarch, which, you know, means a strong woman who holds her community together, etc. And I ran home excited and told my grandmother. Grandma, they have a word that means you. Like, I read that word and I instantly knew who they were talking about.

And so, my grandmother was the source of unconditional love, limitless generosity. It was recently said, you know, when I was, we went to church a lot and you know, there's a story of Jesus feeding the multitudes with five fish and I was like, wait, so Jesus fried some fish and gave people some cornbread. Well, my grandmother does that every week. Like, of course, that's a miracle. I know all too well. A lot of people with fried fish and cornbread, Jesus. Just watch how Flo does it.

So, yeah, like that was what I grew up in that environment of generosity and love. And it wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination. My family, we, we struggled financially at times. We struggled to be aligned on certain belief systems as I grew older and started to challenge some of the things that I had been taught. All the -ills and -isms were present, present in our lives.

But, I felt, I feel like looking back and maybe I'm a bit overly nostalgic. I do feel like my family gave me the antidote for a lot of situations that would have been toxic or traumatic. I had some place to go back to. I had a well of positivity to extinguish lots of negative things and that, that has served me well. 

[00:08:32] Jason Rudman: Well, I think that's the power of the origin story. I think you encapsulated it right at the end there, which is life is not perfect. We're going to have peaks. We're going to have valleys. We're going to have moments where we don't think that anybody sees us.

I wrote about why I started More Elephant because I felt for a long period of my life, I wasn't seen. That has nothing to do with how I present. It's more about who I am, right? And being able to say, hold on a minute, I'm here.

I think the power of your story and so many others, and I share elements of that story, is the one place you could always go back to, to be seen, accepted, heard, and elevated was the family. 

[00:09:18] Dennis Williams: For sure. And it's not always a physical go back. I think many times it was a psychic, it was an emotional go back. There was a time when I was, I felt really stagnant in my career and overlooked and watching people get promoted. And I remember sitting in a very, very small office and saying to myself in that office, these people don't know who I am. Like, I'm special. I graduated from one of the top high schools in my state. I have always been that guy. They don't know that. And so, they're not seeing that.

And it was, call it a pep talk, call it a, you know, kind of a, my being my own corporate coach. But I was like, okay, they need to know who I am. Like, I'm not this person that's going to be limited to their expectation. I have always known that I'm greater than this and now they need to know it. 

[00:10:09] Jason Rudman: I love that and the power of owning that and then saying it's on me to do something with it. I do need doors to open, but I've shared with you, that luck is good but it's the opportunity and the preparedness that starts to open those doors.

And you're talking about the preparedness. I know who I am. I've just got to find opportunities and other people that see what I'm able to do and believe in me. So, let's go there next. So, you go to Hamline University, you study English. So, what was that journey? So Kansas City, Kansas, grandmother, matriarch, mother with her husband saying this is what we're going to do. So how did you find Hamlin? What was it about Hamlin? Why English? And if you would connect that to, again, a couple of the people along the way that saw the essence of who you were and said, I'm here to help.

And the reason that I go there is because when we start talking about your narrative of what you do, you are an enabler. You are a gift giver on some level, and I know that in order for you to be the gift giver, you've been given gifts along the way. 

[00:11:24] Dennis Williams: Absolutely. I mean, I'm going to say a name and any of your listeners, people who hear this, can you find this person? I'd be incredibly grateful to hear from her.

You know, my journey to college was an interesting one. I went to a school where most of the kids went to college. I mean, it was a school for, for folks who were academically minded and I'd spoken to lots of different schools around the country that I thought I'd visit a couple. I had a lot in the back of my head.

Also, I was 17. I was not, certainly not out as a gay man at that time, but I knew that there were some questions I needed to answer about identity and didn't really have a whole lot of people in my environment that I could talk to about that. So, I knew that college was a chance for me to go away. Like. I needed to go someplace and find me.

And so, there was a college fair at my school and the administrator who was organizing it pulled me aside and she said, “I need you to do me a favor.” And I said, what's that? She said, there's a recruiter from school in Minnesota. She's very excited to come here and she doesn't have anyone at her table because, you know, we had big schools coming. And so, she said, do me a favor, gather a group of people and go spend some time with her. I was like, yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was, you know, I had that kind of convening personality. So, I took a group of people over and I said, let's go talk.

And I, I turned the corner. I remember seeing this Black woman standing at a table and was like, oh, didn't expect to see that. And so, we walk up to the table and she opened her mouth, Jason, and the most beautiful sound came out, this Trinidadian accent. So, there I am standing in the middle of Kansas, looking at this beautiful Black woman with this lyrical voice. And she introduced herself as Jillian Baird and she was the recruiter from Hamline.

And I, I don't even remember when the other people left the table. Because Jillian and I engaged in a conversation that lasted and lasted, like everything else ceased to exist. And I remember the conclusion of our conversation, you know, you’re a senior in high school, you think you're something at the time, but I remember saying to Jillian, you should put a star on my card because I'm going to come visit your school.

And she turned the card around and there was already a checkmark on it. She was like, yeah, yeah, you're, you're one of the ones I came to find. So Jillian, I think. Is an important part of the story, right? by the time I decided to go to Hamline, Jillian and my mother were having frequent conversations. And she really, really actively pursued me as someone to come to the school; the school had challenged her to affirmatively go out and find students of color to diversify this predominantly white school.

And so, you know, had that administration not made diversity a priority, then Jillian wouldn't have had her job. And if Jillian didn't have her job, then she wouldn't have had the resources to come and find me in Kansas and say, there's something that I think you will benefit from, but I definitely think the institution will benefit from having someone like you. And so, I went to this, you know, relatively small liberal arts college in St. Paul, Minnesota, and it was a fantastic experience for me.

I was engaged and active and everything. And I over the course of the next four years, sort of, you know, found my, my voice, found, figured out who I was, and a nurturing and supportive community of people, many of whom I still obviously stay in touch with.

Professionally, I was trying to figure that piece out too. I had this great life in college. And I knew in the back of my mind that I was obsessed with Oprah Winfrey. I think most people all those many years ago, had been since her show aired. And I was like, I want to be in, I want to work in television, but I didn't. 

[00:15:17] Jason Rudman: Weren't we all, aren't we all like on some level, weren't we all obsessed with Oprah Winfrey? I don't know if you share, I mean, this has been written many, many times. For me, it was, I've never seen that. We've never seen somebody who looks like Oprah in command of that narrative and being such a force for good in the world. 

[00:15:39] Dennis Williams: Yeah. I don't even know that it was like just a force. I mean, I didn't know that she was doing the good at that moment, right? It felt so personal to me.

I was studying her. She's holding a microphone. She asked thoughtful questions. She's having, she's engaging people. And so, you know, like years later, when I had the opportunity in school to moderate a panel or convene a group of people for discussion, it was always Oprah. Everyone's channeling what they had seen at four o'clock every afternoon, you know, Oprah gathered people on her stage.

And so, I just thought that was the most exciting thing. I had no clue how one got to that place. And so, and I will say this, I was lucky to have a job working in the night shift at 7-11 and lucky because, if you worked from 10 PM to 6 AM, you got an overnight differential and so you made more per hour. Then at six, when the coffee rush came in, they would ask you to stay until eight until it was over. And so, you got an extra two hours. And so, like lucky that I could make money.

And so there wasn't, there wasn't an opportunity for me. I mean, you know, Kansas City is home to Hallmark, right? But, I didn't know anyone who worked at Hallmark. I've said that time and time. My parents didn't know people who worked at Hallmark. I didn't have access to the one media company in my city, and so, you know, it was 7-11 the first summer, the second summer, I was like, let me get a little bit more motivated to find work in Minnesota. I waited tables and you did, I did all the things, right? I've worked again, night shift – the night shift thing worked for me; I worked night shift, waiting tables at a 24-hour restaurant so that I could make additional money. Turns out people drink a lot at night. They leave bigger tips. I mean, all the things, all the secrets that you learn, um, life hacks. 

[00:17:32] Jason Rudman: Life hacks. Life Hacks by Dennis Williams.

[00:17:34] Dennis Williams: This is, you know, I think interesting, you and I've talked about this. I left school believing that I was going to be a teacher and it was something that I knew I could do and something that everyone said I should do.

And so I, I went to work after college at a school in Kansas City. I did it for one year. And I remember thinking, I can do this for a couple more years, but I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. Like I have to figure out something else and just because I can do it doesn't mean that I should do it. Could influence a lot of kids and be teacher of the school or whatever. But I don't think I want to do this for the rest of my life.

And so, I tweaked it a bit and said, well, maybe when people said you'd be a good teacher, they met college professor. So, then I went to school at the University of Wisconsin, took out a bunch of loans to get what I thought was going to be a PhD in English, so that I could be an English professor. That didn't seem to be working. I was like, I don't think I want to be an academic.

And then this is where we get, I mean, I, you know, up until this point, lots of people had influenced me and opened doors for me, but this is professionally my adult life when people started to say, “Hey, let me help you.” And there was an African American guy who I'd met who said, there's an internship at a company in New York. And I'll, and I'll tell you, sometimes it's really important to have those people who see the more in you, like good things are going to happen for me. But this person said, great things are going to happen for you.

And this is guy, his name is Robert Perkins. You don't have to find Robert. I know where he is. Hey Robert, if you're listening! Robert insisted that I fly to New York to interview for a job that I said, no, I'm not really sure I want to do that. And it was working at this internship at Time Warner, and it was supposed to be a six-month internship.

And Robert paid for the plane ticket for me to fly out because I was a poor student, set up the interview, let me crash on his sofa and did all of the things that gave me all the support that I needed so that I could walk into that room, interview and land that job. And that job changed the trajectory of my life. And so that was Robert believing in me.

[00:19:37] Jason Rudman: Right? I think it's interesting that you curated I thought it was going to be a teacher, then let me try on college professorship, then academia, right? Then an angel of sorts says, no, you should go and do this. And then, I come full circle to where you are today, because I'd argue that you are educating through your work.

The power of corporate social responsibility to change hearts and minds and give voice to underrepresented and underappreciated communities, thoughts, ideas, that without the work that you, do may not see the light of day. So for me, knowing you and knowing a little bit about where you're where you started and where you are today, it feels like it's a full circle moment. You're doing it in a way that was not, Hey, I'm standing up in front of students and academically advising. I think you advise and you educate in a different way. What do you think about that? 

[00:20:45] Dennis Williams: Sure. I do think that we are this culmination of past experiences. That my ability to show up in corporate America with a voice, with the perspective, with the point of view to be able to stand in front of the room and deliver, came from standing in front of eighth grade students and trying to get their attention. Right?

I had already honed and developed that skill as a teacher and the way that my mind approaches and analyzes information is exactly the way I think that I was taught to organize, my thoughts around a Toni Morrison novel that I needed to write, a paper about themes and ideas that Tony was espousing. And so, for sure, I've benefited from, those previous experiences and, and I appreciate what you said.

I mean, I didn't even know that corporate social responsibility was a thing. So, in many instances, I'm teaching people that the thing that I do actually exists. That is the first lesson –  that there are positions like mine in many, many companies that people aren't even aware of as a career opportunity. Or to go to and say, and hold companies accountable or partner with them, to say, how do we access the resources of a company that we are in a symbiotic relationship with. I'm a consumer. What is that organization giving back to me and my community?

So, yeah, I think it's, uh, it's not moving widgets, that's for sure. 

[00:22:14] Jason Rudman: Well, it's not moving widgets. And for everybody that's listening, we, we don't have a script. You and I talked generally about where we want to take this conversation. So, you are a gift that keeps giving in the spirit of just listening and then pulling a thread.

What's fascinating is you said, I'm very often teaching people about this thing called social responsibility and they may not even know it exists. So, let's go backwards to go forwards because you join HBO in human resources. I'm going to assume that the first conversation you had there was not about corporate social responsibility.

So how did you find your path to corporate social responsibility? And again, I go there because you're saying some of the work that you do today is to actually teach people that there is such a thing and you have to go on that journey yourself.

[00:23:07] Dennis Williams: I was HBO for 13 years and had enough success to get to middle management. I was a manager. I had fantastic experience at HBO for, for 13 years and incredibly wonderful people who I worked for from a guy Kiko Washington, who was in HR, who was instrumental in hiring me, a woman, Cynthia Smith.

So, these are African American executives who said, we don't see enough people like you, we think you're smart and intelligent and you have something to contribute to this company called HBO. It's like, you know, look, mama, I made it here. I am in New York and I work for Home Box Office. This is incredible.

And I think, you know, for many people that could have been enough, but I always had this thing in the back of my mind that I didn't need the corner office, but I definitely needed to be the best me that I could be. And that was important to me.

You know, I interviewed, there was a woman, Tracy Duke, who hired me to work in the sales part of the organization. Another, the most senior African American woman at the time, Olivia Smasham, hired me to work in marketing. I worked for brilliant women, Maria Weaver. Allison Moore, like all of these people who kept saying, let me invest in this person. Let me invest in this person.

And, and I would say this to them, I would say, you know, forget what it says on my business card. My job is to make my boss look good. I want you to say that you were smart for hiring me; this is how I'll know that, that I'm doing a good job. And they're like, wow, that Dennis – great hire.

People appreciated that I wasn't, I was never, trying to get my boss's job. I was just like trying to learn from, from oftentimes these, these brilliant women, lots of them, women of color, and to make them look good in the room.

I would refer to myself – I'm your chief of staff. Like, tell me what to do. I'm like the cleanup person. And that I think created some really trusting and authentic relationships for me with people so that work became personal.

And, you know, when I called my, you know her very well, my Dominican fairy godmother, Lucinda Martinez, who I worked for a very long time, she was my boss, but she was my friend. Sometimes you need to hear things from people that, like, it's unfiltered. And so, in the 13th year, after some starts and I thought, okay, now it's time for my career to take off.

Lucinda and I were out at lunch, and I was eating some French fries or something. And she was like, listen, you know, if I could promote you and reward you for your talents, it would have happened a long time ago, but doing what you're doing is not going to get you where you want to be. The organization is not going to promote you doing these things. And that was a sobering moment for me!

I was like, okay, maybe I've gone about as far as I can go in this place. But, uh, she also said something that, that kind of slapped me! She said, so you have people in the organization really, really like you. And she mentioned a particular senior executive that she had said my name to. And this person had very, very nice things to say. And he also said, we haven't seen Dennis in a while.

And I remember thinking like, wow, if I had known that this senior level executive thought so highly of me, I would have been nurturing that relationship too. Where did I miss that? How did I stop marketing and promoting myself and going out there and being visible and present?

And so I was like, you know, as I look for another job, because, you know, I'm not going to quit a job until I have another one or I have a really good severance. 

[00:26:40] Jason Rudman: That's your Mom in your ear right there. 

[00:26:43] Dennis Williams: Don't leave until you have another job, or they give you a really good severance. You have to have money in the bank.

And so, as I look for this other job, let me also though make sure that I'm taking advantage of this current moment. And, here's where, you know, the allies show up.

I invited a couple of people to have breakfast with me, which is easier to do when you're inside the organization. And so, I had a very pivotal breakfast with a guy named Jeff Cuson who works, in our corporate affairs team, and at that breakfast, I was going to razzle dazzle him and show him my well-rehearsed smile, make my dentist proud, do all the things.

And Jeff said to me, what is it that you want to do? And I, you know, knowing having studied his area, I was like, I want to know more about writing press releases and doing PR and all of the things that your team does. 

And Jeff looked across the table and said, I don't believe that. You know, stopped me in my tracks. And he said, you know, you've been here for about 13 years or so. You have a reputation. And what I know about you is that if you really wanted to work in my part of the organization, you and I would have had this breakfast along. Right?

He knew I was the kind of person that would set up that meeting. And he said, so you're not interested in working in my organization. So, I'm going to ask you again, what is it that you really want to do? And I tell people this. I've said this often. It was a marker for me in my professional life, not to say the thing that I think the room wants to hear, but to say the thing that needs to be said.

And in that moment, I said, I need to say the thing that needs to be said, which is not that I even want to be in this organization because the job that I want doesn't exist at HBO. He said, what is that job?

And I said, you know, I have a friend who is working at a media company and they are doing social impact work around getting young people to vote and register and they're using the power of their brand to do that. And it's called Rock The Vote. And, I have some friends who are at another company and they're Saving The Music with their brand and other friends. And we don't do that here at HBO. So, I want to go to a place, I want to work for a brand that is using its platform for social good.

And Jeff said, what do you think that would look like here? So, it doesn't exist, but what do you think it should look like here? And because I had had all of those thoughts, because I'd done my homework, I said four or five things about, what the brand could be.

And unbeknownst to me, Jeff, who had access in the ear of very senior level people in the organization, was hearing from the person who was going to be our next CEO that our brand needed to stand for something. And so, in the next conversation that he had with the person who became our CEO, a guy named Richard Plepler, and Jeff's boss, Quentin, he said, there is a guy over in marketing who has some really good ideas.

And Jeff challenged me to put those ideas to a presentation with someone else on his team. We worked together and ultimately the decision was made that I was going to come over and create and build HBO's first corporate social responsibility team based on those ideas. And that was, a watershed moment when I'm sitting at the desk and I have the job that I imagined and now I get to build it.

[00:30:16] Jason Rudman: So, I'm reminded the first podcast that launched More Elephant was with Ben Brooks, who you and I know, right? And what I loved about Ben's, there was much of that I loved about Ben's conversation, but what Ben preached loudly was we have more agency than we think that we have. And it's on us to advocate for ourselves.

And if you're not hearing no enough or not right now, you're probably not advocating enough, right?

What I love, why I brought that up is because of what you just walked through, which was in a moment of I want to do all of the things that if I'm in a PR and communications role, the key qualifications and the job responsibility, Jeff challenged you to say, if you really want to do something, what is it? And I think what I heard is you found your voice which is about agency. 

[00:31:13] Dennis Williams: I think what he said is you don't want to be doing the thing that you're doing. So, what is it that you want to do? And you're right. I had already gone to the job description and was tailoring my resume for that job. Not saying this is who I am, this is what I'm qualified to do, now find that space for me. 

[00:31:33] Jason Rudman: Right. I so identify with that as you and I know, right. Well, you and I were talking about what I think I was put here to do beyond More Elephant, which is accountability and responsibility to build a financial future that works for everybody, not the privileged, not the few, everybody should have access. And so, finding your path, and Jeff shining a light and pushing you and prodding you to say, what is it, You've given me the ‘head’ version. Now I need to know what the heart version is.

[00:32:08] Dennis Williams: And the heart was about you know, I think a lot of people feel this way. The heart for me was, I want to be helping people. Like, is it a teacher? Is it a, this, I want my life to be in service of helping other people. That's what I saw growing up. My grandmother was our neighborhood philanthropist. I want to use whatever powers I have for, for good, right?

That's when we, when I think about origin stories, I think about superheroes, right? Like, that's where it comes from. And, and I always say that, you know, the nerdy part of me that loves, like, SpiderMan and mutants – at some point, those people have to decide if you're going to be a superhero, you have to decide if you're going to use your powers for good.

And when I walk into a room, I want people when I leave that room to say, you know, he wasn't here to make himself bigger. He wasn't here to make other people feel smaller. He wanted the least of these to feel seen and empowered in that room.

And so, to have the tremendous resources of Warner Brothers Discovery or HBO or Time Warner, whatever the company is, to be able to use those resources and know that the decisions that my team and I make impact people in very, very real ways is, is incredibly important.

And you'll, you'll know this because my son, your nephew, and I went last night to a food pantry in our neighborhood and I think parents have to teach their children philanthropy, right? Especially those of us who have children who are tremendously well resourced relative to the vast majority of children in the world.

And so, my son is 9 and as I'm thinking about him growing up in the character that I want to shape for him. I was like, all right, it's time for us, particularly during this, you know, we're, we're recording this during the holiday season. I'm hoping I get to be the Black History Month podcast. Jason, this is edited. So, months from now when it airs. 

[00:34:14] Jason Rudman: Okay. Note, note taken, and your wishes come on. How can I deny that? 

[00:34:18] Dennis Williams: But you know, like I said, during this season when my kid is about to receive so much, now is the time for me to take him someplace where he actually gets to use. And so, we went to a food pantry last night and did an assembly line where we packed, food for people would pick that up this morning.

And what I love is that he was like, Daddy, that was fun. I want to do that again. And so that part of what my mother taught me and what her mother taught her and what her mother, I need to teach that to my son that whatever resource you have, even if it's the ability to just put a can of salmon into a bag for senior citizen who's going to need that for their meal this week, that's the power that you have to impact someone's life. And you should use that power for good. 

[00:35:08] Jason Rudman: So, I think what you said is you hope that that's how people experience you. For anybody listening, there's no hope in that. That's how people experience you. So, from me to you, you don't have to hope because what you do just resonates. And the impact that you have just resonates with people.

How do you decide where to point Warner Brothers discovery from a CSR perspective? Could you color some of the most recent opportunities that you've had to enable voices that might not have been enabled through the work. 

[00:35:46] Dennis Williams: There's so many, it's every day. It is, an abundance of, yeah, I don't know what's in your, your inbox in terms of emails. People email me because they need the company's resource to do something. And so my very, very full inbox is how can we, how can we help? What do we do?

So you know, there's a disaster someplace in the world and how are we going to activate consumers to give? There's an employee who is struggling in a particular way and how can the company step in and provide, through our employee assistance program? There is the need to cultivate a spirit of good and social good in our organization so how do we organize a Global Day of Volunteerism where everyone gets the opportunity to go out to their communities and provide service? We did that recently; we do an annual day of service.

Then let me pause for a second and say, we is my team of incredibly gifted and talented social impact professionals that I work with who come up with the most amazing ideas and execute at the highest levels for this global organization.

But we ask people from all over the world to send pictures and one of my favorite pictures of our Day of Service was a young man who was on a ladder, and he was using the time that we provided to clean out his elderly neighbors gutters and there was something so touching about this, right?

Here's a professional, gets dressed up, sits in front of a Zoom screen, but knows that there's a need in his community and knows that he can do something that this elderly neighbor needs and that she couldn't do on her own.

And just seeing the pride, it feels good to help people feel so good to give back. I mean, it's almost selfish. It's like if you're having a bad day, go to In God's Love, We Deliver. You will feel better for doing it. So, I think those kinds of things are, are, are hugely important.

I'm fortunate to work at a company that believes that we can have an impact through our content and through our platforms.

I didn't work directly, but yesterday turned on our streaming service, Max, to watch Barbie because I was involved in some conversations about Barbie, a version of Barbie appearing on the platform and ASL in American sign language. And so, I looked to see if that version was up, making sure that it would be.

And kept thinking about all of the people who will feel seen because you've taken the time to find and use our resources to have someone in a square speaking to them in the language that they've learned, that they communicate in every day, not reading subtitles. Because they don't walk through life reading subtitles, they walk through life using a language and so they will see that and see that we were intentional about that. And I don't know who those people are, but I feel good knowing that they're that they are out there.

We were working on some incredible initiatives with, with the Oprah Winfrey Network. So, it's just, it's, as I said, it's my every email. I'm humbled and honored that I get to be the person to do that. I will say big scale. We get to define that for, for the company. that's an ever-evolving, very dynamic function because it, it changes to meet the needs of our audiences and the needs of our company. 

[00:39:09] Jason Rudman: So you found your way back to Oprah. That's what we learned just in that. All the roads lead to Oprah.

So currently to your point, it evolves, right?. And it should evolve. Because it's to meet the needs today and to imagine the needs tomorrow. Where is Warner Brothers Discovery focused today? 

[00:39:28] Dennis Williams: You know. Media, we all know this media has the ability to change people's hearts and minds. And so, I think it starts with the stories that we tell at our company and, and whatever ways my team can helping provide motivation, encouragement, incentivize tools, resources, so that our programmers and our storytellers know this as a place where they can use and channel their desire.

To impact lives, keeping this place, this ground fertile for those kinds of stories. We've been able to identify that we need to one, take care of vulnerable communities around the world.

We can do that better than most because we are in most people's living rooms around the world, because they're watching a screen in their home or they’re watching a screen on the train, but we are connected to people all around the world every single day. So, if something happens in the world, we can be the first people to communicate what it is and how people can help. And so, you'll see that through things like CNN, Impact Your World, or any of the other amazing kind of consumer campaigns that we launched to help vulnerable communities.

The second area that we focus on is around creative and technical career pathways for people. So, this is, this one obviously is a bit personal. We talked about this at the beginning – that kid in Kansas said, I'd love to work in media. I just don't know how I was there to connect the circuits for me.

And so had I had the opportunity to engage with, no regrets, no mistakes, but perhaps, had I engaged with someone at 15, 16, 17, and they said, here's how you get to a media company. Then, you know, I, maybe I could have taken over for the Oprah Winfrey show by now. 

I could have gotten into media much sooner, much easier. If those dots had been connected and you see this often, Jason, like in communities, we'll go to people and we'll say to folks, what do you, what do you want to be when you grow up? Like I want to be a lawyer. Or it's like, well, what kind of lawyer do you want to be? And it's crickets because we've not delineated for them, right? We've not peeled back the layers. We've not deconstructed. Like, do you want to be an entertainment lawyer? Do you want to be a property lawyer? Do you want to do mergers and acquisitions? Do you want to like, what does that mean?

And for so many people, if the community they come from is not big enough, it's not expansive enough for their imagination, for their dreams, then we have the ability to come in and help, right? Show them the dreams that are possible. So that technical and career pathway piece is really important to me.

And then, you know, I think it's something that all companies need and should be addressing – the third pillar of our work is around environmental sustainability, making sure that we do the least harm. And, you know, I don't know who invented plastic or Tupperware or any of those things, you know, all the things that we use to make our lives better can also be really harmful for the world that we want to leave our children and or leave the next generation, leave our nieces and our nephews, leave whomever is going to inherit this place.

And I think we inherited an earth from people who came before us and it's one that we can survive in, and we owe it to generations to come to make sure that the Earth is habitable for them too. And, you know, in many ways, corporations have to be the front line of that. 

[00:42:51] Jason Rudman: I think we're going to have to have another conversation because I knew that was going to happen, but just very deliberately in terms of where you oriented the strategic pillars of the work that you do. Number two and number three strike me as more conversation to be had very deliberately.

Number two on the technical aspects and the upscaling and the reskilling of people in context of generative AI and in context of everything that we see about previous generations in manufacturing.

I talked recently with Brian Gallagher, who is the former CEO of the United Way Worldwide. And he said something, he crystallized for me something that I think is really important and is embedded in some of the work that you do, which is – if you think about folks that used to work on the car line, they were making $60, $70, $80, a hundred thousand dollars a year. And they're now making minimum wage. And that's a re-skilling and an up-skilling opportunity that we actually have to take on if we're going to ensure that there's human dignity in the experience in this country, right?

And then the third piece around environmental, that's why I'm going to invite you back. We're going to have a really good conversation about this. I had an Eat, Pray, Love moment in 2023. One of the searing things, Dennis, that sticks with me is, I was in Cambodia, the water levels were, it was low season, the water in the rivers was low and it exposed plastic everywhere. But what resonated with me is where you went is we inherited the earth. And if you look at the data, you might say, well, Americans recycle. We're really great. We do all of this. What we're good at is shipping our recycling and our problem somewhere else.

And I think that's a conversation that we must have. So, for all of the environmental work that's being done, we also have to look at the root cause of how we contribute and how we're living our lives. Because it shows up on the shores of Cambodia. 

[00:45:04] Dennis Williams: And the reality, Jason, is that there are decisions that can be made in powerful rooms. We're not going to make as many pennies per item for the millions and millions of items that we're selling. We're going to you know, lose a few pennies on each one of those because we're going to use a different kind of material that's going to be better suited for recycling.

Or, you know, I'm a consumer. I'm going to choose a different product that, if I have the ability, maybe I pay a few more pennies because I know that that is going to be better for the environment. I'm going to inconvenience my life. And I, we all have work to do. I mean, I'm still driving a car with a combustible engine. I probably don't compost as much as my friends in California do, you know. 

[00:45:46] Jason Rudman: Yeah, we compost over here. 

[00:45:49] Dennis Williams: I know, I've seen that compost on your counter. 

[00:45:55] Jason Rudman: But that's a fun thing for us. It's a fun thing for the kids because to your point, with all of this abundance, I need you to understand that there are people out there that are less well-off and you've got to use your abundance in a way that's positive. I mean, it's, we're laughing about it, but we have a whole conversation about the power of composting and what that does to the environment and why it is better to do that than to just throw it away. 

[00:46:20] Dennis Williams: You know, I, this morning when we were leaving the house, we walked past the food pantry that we worked in last night. And, you know, there are a line of people and what I know happened in that moment is that my nine-year-old felt connected to those people in a way that he didn't before because the blue bags that they were all taking, he put those items in that bag.

So he won't be able to walk past a line of people dealing with food insecurity ever again without feeling himself connected to it in some way that there's something that he can do to help someone on that line, right? That your kid is composting or whatever it is. We're teaching and passing these, these skills on to folks.

I want to go back for a quick second, if you don't mind, to the skills training and sort of where we are as a culture and as a society with AI and all of these things. What was my kind of epiphany moment came from talking to someone who, he himself, was the product of an elite all boys private school. What's the one of those fancy ones that you British folks go to where you sleep away? Yeah,  no, I don't know about that. But you know, we went to an all- boys…

[00:47:35] Jason Rudman: Hey, hang on. You said Oh, hold on a minute. You said what you fancy British folks go to. I just want to point out for anybody listening. I did not go to Eton. 

[00:47:40] Dennis Williams: You didn't go to school with Harry and William?

[00:47:44] Jason Rudman: I did not go to school with Harry and, and. 

[00:47:47] Dennis Williams: No. Okay, all right, all right. Those boarding schools.

But yeah, this person had gone to a boarding school and his son was going to a boarding school and he was like, you know, I, I, I wonder, I worry sometimes like, what is, what's my kid going to do when he grows up?

And I thought, oh my gosh, despite all of his wealth and connections, etc., as a parent, he has the exact same worry that my parents had all those many years ago. Is there a future for my kid? And my kid learns differently – my kid is not interested in this. Like, what are the opportunities for a kid who likes to play with Legos?

And if we can say, ‘Hey, yes, the machine can do some, but we still need these kinds of technical skills; we still need carpenters; we still need… I'm almost ready for Eat, Pray, Love, and that I, after 25 years, I get to have a sabbatical at the company next year. So it's a four week period.

[00:48:48] Jason Rudman: Hang on. Where, where, where are we going? 

[00:48:50] Dennis Williams: Don't hold me to this because you, you're my accountability partner. But I might do this, Jason. So here's what I was thinking. What I would love to do is to find like a three week course that teaches me how to reupholster furniture. I want to know how to like use a tiny little tool and, and wrap something and make it brand new again.

This may be back to my environmental recycling upcycling, but I'm kind of fascinated by this. And I'm fascinated that once upon a time, that was a skill and a craft building furniture, making furniture, making these things with our hands that wealthy people held near and dear.

They named chairs after Kings and Queens, but we've lost that right now. It just all comes off of some, you know, you can put it together yourself. No big deal. And then it breaks in three months. And I want to be able to do that in a space where no one says the words alignment or strategic purpose or synergy. Bang, bang, bang. And here comes a beautiful chair.

[00:49:57] Jason Rudman: You do not want to win MBA bingo in that, in that three weeks, right? Because I love you, I'm going to add a little bit more accountability to that. And I, knowing you, wonder if you can accomplish that and you can do it in Africa because you're not only learning the skill, but then you're also having impact in an area of the world where that is still, there's a modality there, in my mind, that would speak to who you are as a person in a part of the world where I know you would leave even more enriched, even more powerful than when you went in. 

[00:50:34] Dennis Williams: It's so funny that you would say that you would name the continent. So, you know, that my inspiration is actually a man from, from the continent. His name, this is a commercial y'all, his name is Banga Akinabe. And he was an actor on the Wire, but he's an artist. I mean, he's like, like the real deal.

And he reupholsters, he has this incredible company where he reupholsters antique furniture, but with these really amazing prints and fabrics from various cultures around the continent where that he sources from. And the furniture is stunningly beautiful. And what he's saying about value and the fusion of, you know, a mid-century modern chair with a piece of fabric that you associate with another part of the world, is just mind blowing. So, yeah, it's funny that you would say that because that's in part, my inspiration is what I've seen him be able to do. So I'll take it. 

[00:51:28] Jason Rudman: All right. Well, you just told the world that I have to hold you accountable to that. So I, I will do that. We'll curate that together and then come with you…I don't know?

So, I want to end this first conversation with you where you started and very deliberately. I want to ask you – what would your grandmother think about what you've been able to accomplish and the impact that you have had on this world, given who she was and what she meant for you and the pathway that she illuminated? 

[00:52:08] Dennis Williams: Without a doubt, I tell people this all the time. Our ancestors are proud of us. I mean, that the things that they sacrificed so that we would have. That they didn't do that in vain, you know, that they had hardships that, as my grandmother would say, some things she wouldn't even tell us some things she would just have to take to her grave – things that she experienced that changed and influenced the way she imparted knowledge to all of us. So I know that she made, I know that her sacrifices were purposeful, and that she would be incredibly proud.

I'll tell you two funny things. My grandmother, when I would come home from college would, uh, she was my first stop, right? If I drove home from school, I went straight to my grandmother's house. If I flew home, the person who picked me up from the airport, first stop was in my grandmother's house. So that she could see me and I could see her.

And my grandmother would, time and time and time again, take and rub the palm of my hand. And she'd say, you have the softest hands of any man I've ever known. You don't do no hard work. It was our joke, you know, it was, she was so proud that she had a grandson who, you know, the, the work that I did was not the work that she had done seen other men do right.

That I didn't have calluses on my hands, you know, and of course nothing wrong with that, but she wanted something different for me. And so the softer my hands meant the more that I was doing something up at that school that didn't require me to do backbreaking work that other people had to do and not be compensated for. And so, you know, having the softest hands of any man that my grandmother ever knew, I keep my hands soft so that my grandmother, you know, were she alive today would be able to say, you don't do no hard work. 

Um, the second story I'll share something that happened, happened recently. Uh, and it was my mother who was my grandmother's daughter. So I often hear my grandmother's voice through my mother's voice. And I don't tell her that enough, but, but so often when my mother says something, I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's, it's the voice of my grandmother, you know, moving through her.

And so a couple of years ago, I was really fortunate enough, fortunate to be able to, work with a local, when I say local, I mean in the Kansas City area, a YMCA, on a program that was teaching water safety and swimming to inner city kids in the very neighborhood that I had grown up in, in the swimming pool that I had grown up swimming in.

A young, Black boy whose family had immigrated to the United States, from a refugee camp, in Africa, drowned in a swimming pool. Again, the same pool where I learned to swim, where I spent hours and hours and hours of having fun with my cousins.

And so, you know, the people in the community were grieving this, right? I mean, our safe spaces are fun places can't also then be places where our children die. And so it was tough and I was moved by the number of people in in my hometown and my community who reached out to me to say “Did you hear about this?”

And they didn't say do something. They were just like, we should tell him. And then, you know, I think they knew, they know my person. So anyway, fortunate to be able to convene a group of people that included the YMCA and Parks and Recreation and we launched a program, an afterschool program with the school system, thanks to a brilliant superintendent of schools they had there who said we absolutely, that child was one of ours.

And over the course of the last several summers, we have taught hundreds and hundreds of kids in that community how to swim, water safety, so that what happened to that young boy doesn't have to happen to someone else's child.

My mother, who has been the beneficiary of a lot of things over time, because her son works at a media company…my mother said to me when I was home that…I'm getting emotional about this. But, um, she, you know, she said, you know, I've been able thanks to you and all the things that you've done for me, I've flown to London to see plays and I've been in movie premieres with celebrities and I've been to Alvin Ailey galas and all of those spaces.

I've been really, really proud, you know, that my son can bring me into those spaces. She was like, but this? This thing that you're doing here for your community is the thing that I'm most proud of. And I, and I knew, uh, if you, uh, hopefully this podcast isn't recorded, you see all these tears. I knew when my mother said that the thing that you're doing for these people in the neighborhood that you grew up in, this is the thing that I am most proud of you for. And I knew that was my grandmother. I knew that's exactly how my grandmother would have felt.

You know, she would have gone to church that Sunday and she would have said, you know, my grandson, he don't do no hard work, but he started a swimming program to teach these kids how to swim. That's everything those are the accolades that, um, that are the most, most valuable to me. Thanks for making me cry, Jason. Thank you. 

[00:57:33] Jason Rudman: That is why it is a privilege. It really is. And it's an honor from, from me to you. And I've said this to you, I can't say it enough that I am a lucky person to have you in my orbit because you continue to raise the bar of what excellence looks like.

And not excellence because, “Hey, look at me, look at what I'm doing.” but the impact, to your point on many, many people who might not ever meet you, may not even know your name, but you're saving lives, you're changing lives, and there's so much more that I know that you're going to be able to do from the position that you're in and be that force for good. So you are my Oprah for what it's worth. 

[00:58:23] Dennis Williams: There's only one her, but, um 

[00:58:25] Jason Rudman: Well, you're my Oprah because I don't know, listen, I don't know Oprah yet. I haven't met Oprah yet. 

[00:58:30] Dennis Williams: Don't edit this part out. Promise you won't edit this out. But I've already told Jill and Mick how grateful I am that they decided to bring you into the world. So, you know, we, our paths crossed all those many years ago. Not accidentally. You know, we were destined to be in each other's lives to make each other better and stronger. And so, you, the person that I am, is a direct result of having you in my life and generations of our families will benefit from our friendship.

[00:58:58] Jason Rudman: I will not edit it out as people are now listening to it. And, uh, you know, the universe knew what it was doing. How about that? 

[00:59:06] Dennis Williams: Here, here! 

[00:59:09] Jason Rudman: Here. Here! Dennis, thank you for who you are, all the work that you do. And undoubtedly, we will have a follow up conversation because I do want to go even deeper on the work of the work, the impact of the work, and how we can inspire other people, more generations to listen, learn, live, better. And that is what the More Elephant platform is all about.

So thank you. Thank you. And we will welcome you back in the future. 

[00:59:40] Dennis Williams: Alright, sounds good. 

[00:59:42] Jason Rudman: All right, Dennis, take care. 

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