Living the Width of Your Life Transcript

More Elephant Intro

[00:00:38] Jason Rudman: ​Welcome to the latest More Elephant podcast, and I am really excited today to welcome Aneta Kuzma. Aneta and I have known each other for a number of years. She is more than a triple threat. She's an author, a podcaster, an entrepreneur, and when she's not doing that, she's also a wife, a mother, and a community activist.

So there's lots going on that we're going to dig into today, but I'm excited to be in conversation with Aneta so that you can hear her story of how she figured out how to Live the Width of her Life, which is the title of her podcast and how she is then helping individuals, corporations and non-profits figure out how to do that on behalf of their constituents or the individuals that she serves.

So, Aneta, welcome. So good to see you.

[00:01:30] Aneta Kuzma: Jason. I'm so happy to be here and I am just so excited to be one of your first few guests on your podcast. So congratulations.

[00:01:39] Jason Rudman: Thank you. And you have been instrumental in this. You know that, given the gentle at times, and then I think, other times it's what are you waiting for moments.

And I always say this platform is about thought leadership for today's world and how if we listen intently, we can learn from others and then live a better outcome. So, listen, learn, live, better is the tagline for More Elephant. Your work, I think, speaks to that in terms of what you see.

But let's dial it back a little because I'm already off to the races and passionate to get into this. For those of my listeners who may not have come across your great podcast, don't know who Aneta Kuzma is, would you introduce yourself to the audience and also talk through your More Elephant moment or moments that ended with you saying, "‘Hey, there's a new journey and a new chapter in front of me.’

[00:02:31] Aneta Kuzma: Yeah, so juicy. I love starting with my personal, because as you said, I am a wife and a mother and a daughter and a sister and a friend. And I think that those roles are always most critical for me and those identities have kept me grounded, even when I wasn't grounded in other areas of my life.

So, I love to start with that and what I am passionate about, which I ask people, what are you passionate about instead of what do you do? Because so often, we're tied to an identity, is I am passionate about helping people wake up to redefine what success means to them, to help them identify what it means to live in their authentic truth, and to stand in their power in order to help raise the consciousness of this planet one person at a time.

And it sounds lofty, but you know what? If our dreams aren't that big or scary, then we probably need to come back and make some bigger dreams.

So that's kind of what I like to say I'm passionate about. And I have the wonderful honor and pleasure of being able to do that with individuals through coaching, through organizations, through wellness consulting and programs, and also by teaching people how to regulate their nervous system through yoga, meditation, and mindfulness, which are things that helped me in my darkest hours, and I see are real game changers for everybody. Everyone can benefit from mindfulness.

[00:03:55] Jason Rudman: I think that's right. You told me to go on a meditation journey. You weren't the only one, but you did tell me to go on a meditation journey, which has changed the way that I think about myself in the world.

And to your point, why this is such a valuable conversation for people to listen to - you put in the work to change the direction of your life in order to get to this point in your life where you're actually able to help others affect the change that you've demonstrated you can have. So, would you take people on that journey, color for us the darkness, and what More Elephant moment or moments, where it's about talking less and just standing in your truth, and in that moment, in that quietness, a lot is revealed.

[00:04:45] Aneta Kuzma: Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. I spent 25 years, as you know, you and I met when I was in the corporate space and you and I worked together, which was a highlight of my career, but I spent 25 years kind of following all the rules that I thought were set out in front of me by society, by parents, by what we see as external success and validation. And, I found myself pretty empty and having moments where I just said. Is this it? Is this really what my life is supposed to be?

This hamster wheel of wake up, run as fast as you can, come home, eat a little bit, do the things with the kids that you need to log back on, work, work, work, go to bed exhausted and start all over again. And the answer was no!

But the challenge is that too often when we have built our future or our plans based on something that somebody else had designed, right - get the job, rise up the ranks, do whatever, get promoted, et cetera, you find yourself in a spot and you go, well, if not this, then what?

And that really was the first question. And I think the first time I really started having some of those questions was in grad school because when you're a student and you have an opportunity to think, and you have professors that are challenging you; we had a lot of emotional intelligence classes. We had to write a 20-page vision statement for our life and let me tell you, that is not an easy assignment. That's where you're like, ‘Oh, can I work on that corporate real estate project?’

[00:06:14] Jason Rudman: 20 pages, not 20 words, 20 pages?

[00:06:18] Aneta Kuzma: 20 pages, and so a lot of reflection, a lot of deep thinking, a lot of soul searching. And I put together something. I think some things were coming through, but I was not in a place where I actually was so in touch with my inner knowing to be able to really define what that looked like.

And then, once my kids started getting older, I felt like I had a little bit more time to focus on myself again. And that's when I hired a coach because I knew I couldn't do it alone. I needed help. And so, I'm like, let me go to someone who's done this already.

And then when I wrote my vision statement, it was so clear, because at that point I'd already been practicing yoga and meditation every day. It was definitely a part of who I was. It was a daily practice. So, I learned how to drop out of my thinking mind into the body, into the space of intuition, of inner knowing, and I could quiet myself to ask these pretty big questions and get an answer back. And so I would say that was the pivotal moment, but that was two years before I left the organization.

So I had this plan and then for me, it was like, okay, start taking little baby steps every single day in the direction to get more information, to be more curious, to follow the energy. And that's kind of how it happens. And I tell my clients too, all the time is you have to get quiet first, ask yourself the right questions - we have to ask ourselves better questions.

Get honest with what are my values? What are the things that are most important? What do I want in my life? What are those things? And then say, am I choosing daily to stay aligned to this or am I misaligned?

And when we're misaligned, that's when we're burned out, we're stressed, we're anxious, we don't feel comfortable in our body, our minds are racing, all the things that all of us are so familiar with.

[00:08:07] Jason Rudman: And I think if I would add to that, because some of the work that you and I have shared through our personal conversations here and realizing that you're worth it as well. I think that's the other piece. I think we live in this environment as well, where I think our self-worth is also questioned frequently. We do that to ourselves and then the things around us also challenge us.

And I remember you shared that we work together and the joy of actually being able to see somebody say, I'm going to go for this and do it in a way where it was thought, nothing is completely prescribed, but there was thought behind it. I remember you coming in one day saying, I've got a vision board, and I was like, okay, what's the vision board? Right? I remember that.

Just on some level, you're very practical. And on some level, I think you dared to dream, and I think that that is your practice, your coaching, everything that you've done is a result of what you said, which is sometimes you just have to be still in the moment and listen.

[00:09:06] Aneta Kuzma: So true. So many things that you said are true. One, even when you make decisions to change, there's going to be fear. And of course, there were always fears.

And I think for me, not for everybody, and I don't want to speak badly about the corporate world for everybody; some people are very successful and happy and that's their joy and their passion. I didn't feel like I could be authentically myself and discover who that is and be successful in that environment. It just wasn't necessarily a good fit for me or an alignment. And that's okay. It's neither here nor there. That's fine. I was still there for 22 years.

But after I left, I did feel like I was questioning what is my worth? What value do I bring? How do I take my passions plus my skills, plus my experience and education, because nothing is wasted? And what is my superpower? How do I bring all those things together in order to be of service to others which I think is always the part that sometimes we forget.

You do these things to be in service of others. And when you do, you add value. And then you are blessed just by being able to be part of it. And that helps with the fears. If you know that you're doing something, not just for your own benefit, but it's helping somebody else, you're able to pursue, to be more persistent.

And I just read a beautiful quote. I think it's in a book called ‘Travel Lightly’ that I just picked up, and [the author] Light Watkins said, “You'll always feel like an imposter when you're pushing past your comfort zone,” or something like that to paraphrase him. And I love that because yes if you're feeling like an imposter, you're probably on the edge of something really good. That's probably exactly what you should be doing. And if you're not, you're probably complacent, maybe a little stagnant. You might be comfortable. It doesn't mean that there's going to be growth.

[00:10:52] Jason Rudman: I love that. Living in your comfort zone. Like it's just because it's so easy. And I think that that's part of what you described in that 22-year arc [while] not disparaging the corporate experience, there were so many good things that came out of that.

[00:11:06] Aneta Kuzma: Yeah. And you know, I love breath work and that's definitely a new modality that I've been spending a lot of time in and it's been so helpful for me, but also for my clients. I've learned a lot about energetics, of course, with all these different modalities and there's masculine energy and feminine, and we have both in our body. There's yin and yang. We call it different things in different cultures.

And I do feel like in corporations, there Is a very heavy masculine energy and sometimes, distorted masculine energy with the stakes being as high as they are. And so, it's very difficult to operate in the feminine energy, which is more about flow, intuition, allowing things to expand, being still, giving yourself space to be reflective. There isn't always some space for that. And so, I think that part of the challenge, what I was feeling, and the resistance, was that I couldn't develop my feminine energy, and when I wanted to, it felt uncomfortable. It wasn't something that was necessarily embraced or supported.

[00:12:10] Jason Rudman: I think that's so true. Best leadership experiences in my experience have been being led by women. But I think that that's personal to how I show up. I think there is a definite feminine energy in terms of how I approach situations, people, and the risk of being dramatic, in my experience, that is because it is less transactional, more relational, dare I say more empathetic. It's interesting because that's what we crave. And even more so, I think post-pandemic, if we're working in a corporation and we want more of a sense of belonging, and then, as you said, the system’ is not necessarily set up to invite and allow that to thrive.

[00:12:53] Aneta Kuzma: And we need both. I mean, you and I both have very healthy, masculine energy too. The masculine is going to help make sure you meet deadlines and that you can balance a budget and that you are able to get things through over the finish line. You also do need that feminine energy, as you said, which is very much the emotional intelligence focused on influencing, relationships, all of those things. And being able to have both.

Now under stress, we will default to whatever we're most comfortable with. And I think that one of the other things that has happened probably always, but also within the last few years, is just this burnout and stress and anxiety, and people being the unhealthiest versions of themselves. And when I say that I think of physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, all of those ways to be healthy.

And so when people default, if their default is a distorted masculine, you're going to start seeing more of it and then suddenly that becomes the norm or what people are experiencing, which is challenging and causes all kinds of things in the workplace, which I think we're starting to see more and more of.

[00:13:59] Jason Rudman: Well, I think there's how the individual reacts, there’show the leader reacts and how the organization is wired which I think is your point, right? If the organization is wired to a certain way of thinking, you know, lived experience here - I got to the point within my career, at least once, where the experience was not worth the distortion of how I had to show up in order to just make it through the day.

And so, you get to this moment about living in a degree of fear and just not being able to find the time. So why the work that you do? Could you expand on that a little? And then how you built your practice because I think that there's a lot of goodness in terms of a fledgling entrepreneur, learning about the steps that you took to say, “Hey, well, I've got this vision. I'm ready to do it. I'm now jumping off the cliff.” Then what came next?

[00:14:51] Aneta Kuzma: You know, it's interesting because I always assumed that the people that I would work with, that I would coach would be basically who I was. It would be entrepreneurs or successful professionals, who were probably a little type A, who are very successful externally, but maybe they recognize something was off. They weren't healthy or their relationships weren't great, or they weren't sleeping, or they were starting to feel stuck or questioning what they wanted to do next.

So, my first several clients were people I knew who knew me in the corporate space. And so, it validated [that] I have credibility with the people I used to work with or people who knew me in that corporate role. And now they want to work with me because of who I am in this space. So that was a validation and that felt really good. I love working with young adults as well, but I would say the majority of people are going to be people 40 to 55-60, who are in this space.

And then I got really curious to say, what is my superpower? Like, what are the things that I can bring that somebody else. that might be different. And I think all of us should do that when we establish what our brand is. And so, part of it was saying, what are the things I'm passionate about? What are the things I absolutely want to be able to teach someone else because I learned, and it works for me, and this is really important? And then how do I do it that might be a little bit different? What are the things that I bring into that equation? And that sort of builds your brand. And so, for me, it was definitely focusing on the things that saved my life always, which was yoga, meditation, breath work. Really the mindfulness practices, all of those things.

And then just wellness overall, I was very curious to say like, what does it look like to be optimally healthy? So I followed my curiosity, got certified, took classes, listened to podcasts, read the books, everything like I'm a learner. So, I'm constantly learning things and want to share it with clients. And so, I started with the focus primarily on coaching and then during COVID, year two, then COVID hit. I really started to see that there was such a need in organizations and corporations to help people think about wellness in a different way.

It is not counting your steps and measuring your cholesterol and blood pressure only. You gotta do those things, those are so baseline. But really, we need to start looking at people's mental health, their emotional health. What do you do when people's entire routines have been disrupted for themselves, their family, etc.? And so really saying, how can I be of service, how can I help here?

That led me to creating programs for organizations and companies, as well as starting a daily meditation class every single morning, which was really a way for people to come in, in community together, to talk about what was going on, their fears, their challenges, and to teach them how to meditate in order to create a sense of inner calm and peace and grounding, or at least to help them get through what were they were going through.

And so I feel like every year. It was just constantly asking myself, what's next? What's interesting? I always knew I wanted to do a podcast. I always knew I wanted to write a book. I was not prepared to do that year one. And so, I always tell entrepreneurs is have your big dreams and your visions, but don't set the expectation that you have to do all of it year one. Leave room for magic, leave room for beautiful synchronicities to happen in your life to expand.

And so, my business really has been creating constantly a multi-year strategy and approach and then kind of sticking to it. And that's sort of my masculine energy, which is like, I know where I'm going, what I want to do, but the feminine is like, but it doesn't have to be so prescriptive. I'm going to allow beautiful things to come into my life that maybe I didn't even plan that also align and feel good and can help others.

[00:18:47] Jason Rudman: What I love about that is you've given me that lesson before and it works - as I've explored More Elephant and building that brand. Being purposeful, listening to you and watching what you've done and then taking that lesson of saying, “Hey, you've got this five-year vision of what you want this to be. It's not going to happen in the first six months.”

And the first six months will reveal a bunch of pivots that you may not have even thought that you had to go left by 77 degrees, but you've got to go left to 77 degrees to get back on path.

So, pandemic is a bit of a pivot, I assume. Nobody knew the pandemic was coming so how would you summarize what you're seeing within corporations that is coming to your front door, that you're having to solve through mindfulness, breathwork, your practice? What are we dealing with?

[00:19:39] Aneta Kuzma: Yeah, it's interesting because I would say ‘20 right, during the pandemic and probably ‘21, people were still working at home, and it was a lot of helping people with their mental health, helping people create new routines, helping them figure out what does this look like?

My entire family and I are under one roof, or maybe I'm by myself, and I feel isolated, whatever the situation is. And so really helping people through those challenges. People got healthier in many ways; people started walking their dog or taking a little lunch break or spending time with their partner; using their commute time instead to cook dinner. And so, people started creating a much more integrated life because there was time and space for it.

And then some organizations said, okay, well, now you've got to come back, and with sometimes no choice, sometimes hybrid, sometimes people don't want to necessarily do what they're being asked to do. And so now, the routines are shifting again, and I see people struggling to say, “But I loved all these things. I felt better. I felt healthier. How am I now going to go back to the way things were before? Because I can't. Like that wasn't sustainable. I didn't recognize that I was not doing well. I was just on that hamster wheel and going so fast that I didn't necessarily become aware of it.”

So, we definitely still see a lot of challenges with people's resilience. Burnout continues to be on the rise. I mean, the World Health Organization has it labeled as a chronic illness now. It's not going away. And at the same time, I do see organizations investing more time into programming. I think that some people are going to self-opt out if the environment doesn't work for them, and if it doesn't work for their families, I think people are going to be making tough decisions about who do I [they] want to work for based on what I [they] really want in my life.

And I don't think it's because people aren't working or scared to work. I think people are working harder than they ever have been. I think it's just that people finally were given an opportunity to see that life can be done differently, and they don't want to give that up.

[00:21:48] Jason Rudman: I think people have seen that they have the ability to live the width of their life, which is the title of your podcast. What I find fascinating, Aneta, is we're bringing people back to work to have Zoom calls in an office. That's the fascinating thing, right? Like, we're all still looking at the computer, but we just happen to be, and somehow the raison d'etre is that we have to do that because we have to protect the corporate culture, which a little bit of the cynic in me is like, no, it's actually to try and make that corporate real estate work.

I want to go back, though, and then spring forward to bring that point together in terms of what you're seeing with, and in times of stress, how people show up. I do think, as well, that the toxicity in the workplace is now kind of increasing and taking on a different shape. If people are struggling to figure out this new normal, they've had an opportunity to understand how…work-life balance is like an accordion, right? And when it's playing sweet music, I think you show up the best way possible in that integrated version of your life. You do your best work at work, and you do your best self in the household.

And so, I shared with you in my recent past, a level of toxicity that I had never experienced before, which was day three of the job, and a realization that somebody on the other side who, frankly, started the conversation with “I don't trust you.” lt's day three, in my mind, I'm like, “Oh [sigh] we're never going to recover” if you're starting from such a position of distrust, and dare I say, sabotage on some level, but it got me thinking in the context of this conversation, less about the person and more about their [own] toxicity, and as a leader, what they bring to the organization, and [how] that affects everybody around them.

And so, what are some of the things within your practice specifically, if I was in a corporate practice, what does that feel like for somebody that's going through that process?

[00:23:55] Aneta Kuzma: I'm going to take a step back because I've been thinking so much about this and like toxicity and also trauma that we experienced.

[00:24:01] Jason Rudman: Yeah. Trauma. Corporate trauma.

[00:24:04] Aneta Kuzma: Yeah. With a big T or little T, right? There's all kinds of trauma. And I think we're speaking more about trauma than ever before, which gets stored in the body. If I can get a little woo…

[00:24:15] Jason Rudman: Well, dare I say, dare I say as well, as you go woo. Like the corporate trauma, and I'll use me as an example, right? I triggered something in that person. It wasn't about me. It might've been what I represent, kind of like the threat level, whatever it was. I triggered something that was unbeknownst to me. And what I realized, the very little chink in the armor that I got to kind of like understand the person, because they were incredibly guarded and remained so, was that their corporate trauma was actually their personal trauma.

They had not dealt with it. Like I figured out enough to know that the corporation can exacerbate it and kind of elevate it. That's my assumption. But it's so connected to Big T, Little T, whatever we want to call it. So much about who you are as a person and how you have solved or not solved for challenges that come before that moment. I just wanted to offer that before you go woo… And I don't know where woo is going, but we're going to go woo!

[00:25:10] Aneta Kuzma: Well, we are all energetic beings. We know this, right? This is science. This is not something that I'm coming up with. Like we are more energy than we are matter, right?

And so, if you think about the corporation or a company as an organism of all these different energies, right? If we all have a nervous system that could either be in a state of regulation, which is the rest and digest, the nervous system, and the parasympathetic, where feel-good hormones are released through our body. We are in homeostasis. Our breathing is under control. We're more relaxed. We're grounded. We're using the frontal part of our brain to make decisions. We are emotionally intelligent.

Or we are sympathetic, which is like I'm under stress. It is fight or flight or freeze. And it sounds like the person that you were talking about in the interaction was in that state. And when they then made a statement to you that they do not trust you, that triggered your nervous system also. So, you've got two (2) people now who are trying to engage in a dialogue that is triggered, and their nervous systems are flared up. They are in the ‘sympathetic.’ And when you are, you are not operating in a critical, grounded, rational thinking state. It's emotional, it's volatile. It is the reptilian part of the brain, the amygdala, which is great if you want to run away, but it's not to actually be able to dialogue.

So imagine if now you have the majority of the people in a corporation who are in this state. What does that feel like? You will feel that energy if you walk into an organization. And if everyone is in the sympathetic nervous system, a dysregulation, you will feel it, their decisions will be made, the focus will be made, with that level of thinking. The projects they select, the culture that's perpetuated, the people that they hire. Think about all of the implications.

And so, to go back to your question, when someone comes to me, and they know they're not well and maybe they don't have the language to say, my nervous system is dysregulated, but they're telling me they're anxious, they're worried, they can't sleep, they have racing thoughts, they’re fearful, they want to quit. All of these things, they're not healthy. I know their nervous system needs to be regulated, and that's where I always start with breath work and meditation first.

I say, let's deal with what's happening right now. Let me teach you some skills because when that happens, guess what? You're going to be more clear. You're going to be more focused. You're going to be sleeping better. You're going to be able to think more clearly.

And then suddenly, you've got these skills that you can use proactively and reactively to protect yourself. But it's not sustainable if the environment, the organism of the organization that they're in, does not change. So, they may be a worse mismatch, which I think is actually probably where I was.

I was doing all this work on myself, and I felt like the alignment was not there, and I couldn't go back. And it was too hard to protect myself. I want to hear your take on this because this is something I've been really thinking about from an energetic perspective as we think about toxicity.

I don't think the majority of people want to be unkind, hurtful, or sabotaging. I don't think the majority of people do. I just think that they're probably in the worst state that they've ever been. And all they're doing is responding from a very emotionally unstable place.

[00:28:42] Jason Rudman: I think that's right. Like, I did not reflect on this person being deliberately sabotaging. It did cross my mind. And I think we have experienced infrequently, but we have experienced meanness in a corporate environment. So, I'm going to assume, to your point, positive intent. And that's why I said my grounding was, I had to go back from my energy perspective, and I went back the next day after it calmed down, and said, well, what you won't do is you won't talk to me like that.

Because this wasn't even a peer. This was somebody who reported to a peer of mine, and I think you hit it: fight or flight. They felt threatened, not by me, but because of my experience. An anecdote, you know me well enough [that] I think I get humor right most of the time, but not all of the time. Nobody's perfect. But, you know, I threw out one of these innocuous, “Hey, well, I'm thrilled to be here. I've been doing the work that I do, that I was asked to be here, for a long time,” and the response to that was, “Well, you're demeaning my experience because you're saying that you've been doing it longer than I have.”

So, I offered that up because I think it's exactly what you said. Something triggers, and microaggressions happen frequently. We don't address them because organizations are actually not set up to address them. I remember when we were working together, there was an example of explicit aggression; it wasn't a microaggression; it was an explicit aggression that I called out, and I don't think that was viewed favorably. Basically, it was very hands-off, and it was like, you go deal with that. I'm like, hold on a minute…

So, I don't think organizations are actually equipped to be able to do that. And I think the question we have to ask ourselves is, can they be? And then you've got a hundred different individuals bringing their energy, which is a hundred variations on something. And to your point, I go back to the source, and I say, I'm not going to fault the person, but I am going to recognize that the work that they need to do is work they have not solved that [existed] before I got here, before the organization got here, and is a fundamental part of who they are that, to your point, needs some understanding, excavation, working on.

Again, [that] is the work that you did in order to realize that there's a new chapter for me that is not only I figured out how to be the best representation of myself, but now let me help others understand how to do the work so that they can solve what they're turning up to tell you is the biggest ‘itch that they need to scratch,’ which is unhappiness, a lack of fulfillment and a lack of purpose.

So I think it's real. And I think it's been exacerbated by the pandemic. It doesn't make the feeling on the other side of somebody who's on the receiving end - I understand it scientifically for everything you described - and it's also not acceptable. And then how do you deal with that? How do we give people the tools to recognize in themselves how to get better, but then you also have to deal with the 99 other people that may, on any given day, come up and show you their version of themselves that also needs work?

[00:32:00] Aneta Kuzma: Yeah, it is not an easy task. And I think it does start with each of us individually. Anytime I would say, what could you do for yourself? And it's also revisiting one of the things I said to myself when I started my new chapter [which] was I don't want to just survive. My goal is not survival. I want to thrive. Hence the Live the Width brand.

I don't know how many days I'm going to have. I don't know how many healthy days we have. None of us do. But right now, the days that I have, I'm going to basically live them as fully and as intentionally as possible. And that's the new goal.

And when you start thinking about your life that way, and you give yourself permission to say, you can be grateful for all of the things that you have, because this is something that I struggled with, and a lot of people struggle with. You can be grateful for everything that you have, everything that your life has afforded you. And you could also say at the same time, this is not enough!

And not enough monetarily, maybe that's it, but to say not enough freedom, not enough space, not enough time to be healthy, not enough time to sit quietly in reflection. If that's what I want to do or to sit outside or to go for a walk. It's really redefining. And the beautiful thing about coaching is I teach people all the time.

I help facilitate a discussion where people can discover what success means to you for your life. Don't worry about what society says, but what do you say that a well-lived life means to you? If you're looking back at the age of 80 and you look back, and you say, you know what, I got one chance as far as we know, maybe there's more, but it was pretty good. I have no regrets.

That's the question we have to ask ourselves. But when our nervous system is not regulated, we're not asking that question. We're just trying to figure out how to make it through today. There is no thinking about “What does this look like 10 years from now?” I mean, maybe the furthest people look is to say, I hope I can get, make it to retirement. It's like, can I survive until that date?

So that's what I really help my clients figure out - What does this look like? What's getting in the way? And then what do you need to do? What are those baby steps every day to get you pointed in the right direction?

[00:34:12] Jason Rudman: And I think, not easy work, and at the risk of joining two things that are probably not related, but I'm going to go there, like a 12-step program, right? Like when you're almost in recovery. On some level, the first step is to acknowledge that there is a better outcome. So, for me, it's not monetary. The work that I've done is not to say in order for me to be successful, I need to be making 5X what I'm making right now. It is absolutely about the work that matters and the impact that you have on those that you choose to serve.

I remember this story as well. When I was in New York, Alvin and I wanted kids, but we weren't ready to have kids, you know. That's all about title and prestige, and you get the title, and then 2 years later, I want another title. I remember sharing with people that one of my proudest moments [achievements] was I had 8 different jobs in 13 years at American Express. When I look back at that right now, that was chasing a title. It was, it was absolutely chasing guitar and I'm grateful for it because it opened up opportunities to work with you and do other things in my life. But at this stage of my life, it is comfort, I think the comfort zone that we're talking about, is less to do with money and more to do with the feelings of what you do, whatever that is that they have on you, the people that are around you that you love, and you see frequently. And then the change that we're able to affect, small or large, over a short period of time or over a long period of time, but the impact that we're able to have on others. And that journey takes work.

[00:35:48] Aneta Kuzma: It does. And we sometimes put pressure on ourselves. Sometimes, clients will say, I don't know what my big purpose is or what is my calling. And I remember feeling this way. And I said, so what are five purposes with little p's? What are five things that you could say you're passionate about? Or where you think you might be able to make a positive impact? Where could you serve, right now, based on what you have?

And when you start to define those and take steps, and you are of service to others, then more opportunities reveal themselves because you've taken action where you are, and then suddenly there's a new opportunity, or you meet someone else, or there's a closed door. You might think, wow, I really wanna pursue this. And then the door closes, and I've learned that one of my prayers. I always say, "‘God, open up the doors you want me to walk through and slam the other ones shut.’ Lock 'em.

You know, where I can't even try to open them because I don't have time. I don't want to pursue the resistance or the things that maybe I think that I should be doing but aren't necessarily there for me, or maybe the timing is wrong. There are plenty of other things you can do.

[00:36:56] Jason Rudman: I love that. The experiment, I mean, it's classic. It's like design thinking, right? It's design thinking for your life. And I think that you have to walk through a number of doors. And to your point, sometimes you hope you don't even have to walk through the door because you don't want the experience on the other side, but the experience on the other side is also that experimentation that says, “Oh, I tried this. And this is not for me or not right now.”

So, I don't want to lose sight of the experimentation element that's built into what you said. And I think that that's a great bookend on some level because I know enough to connect that to your podcast. So, I do want to talk about the podcast. I want to talk about the book in these final few minutes. What episode are you on now?

[00:37:42] Aneta Kuzma: We've recorded over 50. So..

[00:37:44] Jason Rudman: You've recorded over 50. So if you think about that, when you got started, and you've talked to 50-plus different people, I know for sure that you did not have a list of 50-plus, or these 50-plus people were not all on your list, because some of them you didn't know, right? So again, that's the power of what can I do? Who can I talk to? What can I learn?

So, would you give a little bit of color in a final few minutes about the podcast and what you're ultimately aiming to achieve with the narrative? And then that also begets a book that you wrote that I want to make sure people know about because they can find out more information and buy a copy of it on the moreelephant.com website as well.

What's the narrative you're trying to curate with the podcast? Why a book? And then, what's the most important thing that you'd want people to take away from our time together today?

[00:38:41] Aneta Kuzma: Yeah, thank you. I've always listened to podcasts, so I love this space, this medium, and I love people. Like someone asked me today, what's one of your superpowers? And I said, I love people, and I see them, and I hear them.

And so, I love podcasting, and with the brand of Live the Width, I wanted to be able to highlight and showcase everyday people who made a change in their life. They probably did it scared, they didn't know how it was all going to turn out, and they made a shift in their life, whatever that is. And those stories are so inspiring.

We hear celebrities, and then there's always a narrative of like, well, they've got a staff and all this stuff, and they were able to do it because they have millions of dollars. And it's like, okay, so these are real people. And if their story inspires someone else to take action, then that makes me really happy. Also, I love highlighting for others to say look at your life, your life matters. We don't always see the changes we make in our own life. And we don't always celebrate all of it because we're really hard on ourselves and we're critical.

And so just being able to say like, wow, you're amazing! Look at what you did here. I think is also rewarding. And I love talking to people that I never met before. I love talking to my friends like you, but I also love chance encounters.

I just introduced you to two women that I had on my podcast, Mical and Alexandra. And I met Mical, she's an actor, filmmaker, and director. I met her at a restaurant where she works in New York City; when we were just there, we sat, and she was taking care of us, and we learned her story. We spent so much time with her, and [so] she was on my podcast, and she and her friend, Alexandra, created a movie, and it's on the indie circuit. I would never have met her before.

And now, in every encounter with anybody, I just find myself very curious and engaging in deeper levels of conversation and then sharing them with other people. And so, that's how you get more visibility and beauty in the world. I like to think my conversations are all uplifting, and I wrote the book because It's the same title: Live the Width of Your Life, 365 Daily Meditations on Living with Purpose, Passion, and Peace. And the book is basically a transformation journey from start to finish.

It's set up by month and day. Each month has a different theme of transformation. Each day has a quote, a post, and then a journal prompt or a challenge. And I did it because these are the topics that I help to facilitate with my clients from a coaching perspective, and I do believe that if you take action daily, then you start building those habits, and you really will start to see the change.

We all have read many books, and we consume them, and maybe we apply a couple of percent of what we learn, or we put it back on the shelf and say, that was a good read, and we don't do anything with it. This is really a daily sort of action, and the journal that accompanies the book will be available on Amazon as well, which is the ‘Live the Width Journal.’ So, it has the prompts and the challenges available, so that will be a nice sort of companion piece to the book.

[00:41:54] Jason Rudman: Awesome. It's so inspiring. I've lived this journey, right? I've lived the width of this chapter. How about that? And it's a mighty wide width.

What's the one thing that you would leave people with to continue to inspire them, to continue to encourage them to take action? What would be your one note?

[00:42:11] Aneta Kuzma: One note? It's never too late. You literally can decide today. It doesn't matter how young or how old you are. It is never too late to decide that you want to make a shift and a change. And there are so many resources available, even if you don't know how to do it. Reach out to somebody else. You can reach out to me. I do free coaching consultations.

There are so many resources available, and just ask yourself if I were my 80-year-old self looking at my life right now, would I say, “Well Done,” or would I say, “Ooh, I wish I'd done something different,” and use that to maybe propel you forward.

[00:42:52] Jason Rudman: Yeah. Take the first step. So, with that, how do people learn more about the Aneta Kuzma Group? Live The Width of Your Life? How do people get in contact with you for that free coaching session?

[00:43:05] Aneta Kuzma: Yes, I would direct people to my website, so anetakuzma.com, and I actually have a special URL that you can include in the show notes, which is a page for your community. I'm offering some free breath sessions for folks who would like to experience that either in a group or personal session.

I would highly recommend people do it. It's amazing. It's changed my life. I'm very active on Instagram @ArdelianKuzma and also on LinkedIn, my full name. And then the podcast, of course, which is available ‘Live The Width Of Your Life’ on all platforms and they can schedule the free coaching consultation from the websites available right on as a banner on the homepage. So pretty easy.

[00:43:46] Jason Rudman: Awesome. And we will include all of that great detail in the liner notes to this great conversation. You are a dream. I heart you. You know that. I am so thankful and grateful to have you in my life. The universe was, she was clearly, I’m going to go, she, not even they, she was clearly working her magic when she put you in my path. And I am exceedingly grateful for your time. Thank you for taking the time to talk about your journey, the impact that you're having on others, and the courage that it takes to just put actually one foot in front of the other. And truly, truly start to Live the Width of Your Life.

So, I really, really appreciate it. Thanks so much.

[00:44:30] Aneta Kuzma: Thank you, Jason. It was my pleasure, and there are no coincidences. So, I'm super grateful that our paths have crossed and we continue to stay connected to one another.

[00:44:40] Jason Rudman: And take that breathwork, folks, because I'm actually going to schedule mine. Aneta has been telling me that I've got to do it, so I'm actually going to do it. She's anxious to get her hands on me from a breathwork perspective. So, from me to the audience, I am going to schedule my time as an extension of the meditative practice that I started early this year.

So again, thanks, Aneta. talk soon, okay?

[00:45:02] Aneta Kuzma: Thank you. Bye, Jason.

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